Where is the learning in showing? Exhibitors? Judges?

[ChickenPotPie]

Thank you for all these very helpful replies.

It seems that learning opportunities for chicken and rabbits exhibitors are not all that different. You've made good suggestions:

1. Join the APA/ABA, purchase SOP
2. Join your national breed club (do most have handbooks?)
3. Join a local all breed club
4. Talk to the judges after the show if they're available
5. Find which shows/clubs host education seminars
6. Post here with questions/ask for critiques

That is exactly what I'd suggest to a rabbit newbie. It's intuitive really if you've shown any other animals, I suppose. The responses I've had (find a mentor) have been so consistent, though, I was led to view the culture to be different than at rabbit shows. It "looks" different. Not as much mingling, breed promotion (mini welcome wagons), and there are typically many more judges so access to them is easier. I think my biggest problem was finding the exhibitors that showed the same breed as my children (Yes, I'm looking for them the entire time) - even with the list of exhibitors in hand. lol

Like many first timers, perhaps not advantageous to my boys, I have waited to join the clubs and purchase the SOP until I have a better feel for the whole poultry thing. My children already raise and show two other species of animals and have special needs. I am naturally cautious about getting them into a hobby before I know there is a good support net for newbies. Some show arenas are very much a "good ol' boys" club and jumping into to them blind would just be naive. Protective mom talking here.

Over all, I'm liking what I'm seeing with showing poultry. We've got our feet wet with a few shows where we've learned what showing "looks" like. We've met some friendly people, too. Since it seems that one of my non-rabbit loving children has a love for chickens that shows no sign of fading, it seems our next step is to go ahead and jump in.

I'm waiting on the next publication of the SOP. The judge at our county fair was proof-reading it and said it shouldn't be that long before it was available. He showed me the current one (very helpful gesture) so I really look forward to purchasing the new one.

Thank you all again. I hope this thread will be helpful to other newbies in getting them started off on the right foot, as it will help my family. Any other suggestions?

OT: akcountrygrrl, Thank you. Dahlu, my avatar, was a beautiful rabbit, Grand Champion, and was special to me, though I've had reservations about using her because she is not posed correctly in the photo (it's a personal joke). If feel like I should put a note on the photo "Never pose your JW like a ND" (which kills me).

Anyway, yes, I'm attending the ARBA Convention and Show in Minneapolis.

Every rabbit exhibitor in the U.S., Canada, and Japan are on a single mind right now with it being just 1 1/2 wks away. Many, including us, are leaving in one week from today. We bring our computer to give updates to people on online groups/forums who can't attend. People will be glued to their computers and cell phones on that Monday. I plan to be helping at the judging tables, if needed, this year because I won't have children with me and I'll be at RabbitCon, the ARBA banquet, Rabbit Fever movie screening, and such but the best place to meet would be the Wooly aisles before show day. I'm Wonder Woolies Rabbitry. I'd love to meet you and see your daughter's rabbits.

Is she on the JerseyWoolyList yahoo group yet? It's the yahoo group used by the NJWRC. If not, make sure to join.

 

[ThePolishPrincess]

I would suggest you inquire more about showmanship to make sure that this isn't *just* for 4H members. In my very limited experience, any can sign up for showmanship so long as you are under the age of 17-18 (depending on the show). You sign up said bird in your paperwork and mail it in with your cage fees/other info. Then, at least according to the few shows I've participated in, they either ask you on the sheet if you plan to participate in showmanship or if not, you sign up for it while you're at the show. Showmanship is my favorite. That is how/where I have learned the most, because not only will the info I have recovered stay in my head for 'chicken-talk' but I can apply it life and other areas as well. It has also certainly helped my public speaking.

And I understand the purpose of the breed/bird better. While my birds that I do exhibit with are far from open-class-competing quality, IMO, they are okay enough to compete in youth classes most of the time and are great showmanship birds. Showmanship birds do not need to be 'perfect' though they should at least be a decent enough representation of the breed, and if not, one should be able to at least understand what their flaws are. But I wouldn't choose to show any bird with obvious DQs/faults/defects.

That said, my birds have done me better in showmanship than regular youth judging. Birds must still be conditioned and trained to cooperate, while I am handling them/speaking to the judge, but the hands-on experience and being able to form your thoughts and explain to the judge is the big thing. That's what I'm going to miss most when I'm officially an 'adult', for chickens, is not being able to participate in showmanship anymore.

The few judges that I have met will give most feedback, if any, after judging is over. However, when they see a huge flaw or something they really like, they will sometimes point it out while they are handling the bird, if you are present and are watching them handle it. Mostly when they do this, I have noticed, it's when there's something wrong with the bird.

Otherwise, asking for feedback afterward is okay. One thing I have learned is that different judges certainly have their different opinions. In regular exhibiting, obviously some will think features of the bird are okay, when others will have a big problem with it. In showmanship, I've had judges tell me afterwards that they had a hard time taking off points for anything, and others take off points for no reason at all (I've seen the grade sheets, I know).

Good luck!

 

[ChickenPotPie]

Thank you, PolishPrincess. That helps. I had not thought much of showmanship because in our new county, you are not allowed to do showmanship unless you're in 4h or FFA. So, no independents. I don't know why because independents are allowed everywhere else I know of. My children enter their animals in conformations at the fair as independents.

I'll have to help the kids brush up on showmanship (I have some reading to do) so they'll be ready for the local poultry show come January. There should be no such "4H only" rules because the host club is not officially affiliated with 4H.? I'm sure I'm sure my boys will enjoy it.

 

[muddyhorse]

at APA shows showmanship is open to all youth. at count fairs you have to be in 4-h. my DD7 does showman ship at the APA shows and I have learned a ton watching it.

 

[ThePolishPrincess]

Quote:
I agree, I dislike that rule. It discourages the amount of youths who don't participate in in 4H or FFA but would still like to be a part of showmanship. And alot of times, the number of kids who wish to partake in showmanship are on the low side to begin with. I wouldn't mind having some more competition...but I'm usually the oldest to take part in it, and every year I see a few more kids taking some interest, so it's slowly making it's way...

Is there any way you can bring this up to your county? I don't see the huge deal. Every youth should be treated the same, unless we're talking about years of experience in coorelation to age, etc. Otherwise, I've seen some kids who aren't part of a 4H or FFA group do very well.

This is what helped prep me most for showmanship. I happen to find the diagrams of the wing/foot very helpful. Also try to get your kids to know as many parts of the body as possible. That's a biggie in judging. I know my past judges have commented that this was a huge help on my grade sheet. This page honestly doesn't get enough credit.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=4178681

APA showmanship is my favorite, as opposed to county, anyway, because it's more challenging. Judges can take anywhere from 3-15 minutes with a kid dishing out tricky or in-depth questions.

 

[ChickenPotPie]

Thank you again. I'm going to take a look at that page after the kids are off to bed.

The rule about no independents allowed in showmanship is a county rule here, not a state rule. I have a young friend that I show with (just aged out of 4H) who's been the reigning champ in her county for several years now. The past few, she has entered as an independent. I think the variance in rules may be due to different perspective. I've judged showmanship (rabbit) in another county that allows independents and the junior showmanship alone takes half the day there are so many participants. And I am one of two judges that are needed to get through all the kids. So, I believe it does draw good competition as well as increases the fun and learning to be more inclusive.

However, as I said, perspectives can vary. Last year, my son showed dairy goats as an independent in our new county because we had not yet joined a club here. He took Champion/Reserve Champion with two of his three goats. The mother of his competition (a 4H member) was pretty upset that my independent son "took" her 4H member's awards.

The county fair is not a 4H fair but her son was entitled to an award and my son wasn't according to her perspective. It is not an uncommon way to look at it, though. It is not correct thinking but it is not uncommon. Too bad. If the committee members of more fairs were more inclusive, they might have a much more successful showing at the fair.

Our county fair's rabbit and poultry show are run like no other I've ever seen. They actually kick out the exhibitors during the rabbit show and lock the doors so no learning can take place. Yeah. (Maybe this is where this thread sprang from!) No wonder there were a grand total of 36 rabbits entered (in a rural county). LOL No one wants to show their animals if they're not learning anything by doing it. Our last county (big city, virtually no $$, mostly planned by youth) there were 500 rabbit entries. Of course, they have educational activities galore for the kids as well as fair goers. It's perspective and a welcoming attitude that makes that fair a success.

 

[Coopa Cabana]

A few years back, I attended a local avian show (parrots, cockatiels, etc). After the judging had been completed, there was a judging demonstration. One of the judges had about 8 cockatiels from the competition, and critiqued each against the next, until the winner was placed. Each step of the process was explained in detail - exactly why one bird was closer to standard than the next. It was so informative.

I have my SOP, study it the best I can, and try to absorb as much info here on BYC and other forums as I can from the experts with years more experience than I can ever hope to garner. I truly appreciate all the experts taking the time to pass on their knowledge.

But a live, hands-on judging demonstration is invaluable. They don't have them at our local APA/ABA show either, but our local club usually sponsors at least one a year. And if you can find a local showman/breeder of your particular breed, many are willing to mentor newcomers.

 

[poltroon]

ChickenPotPie, if that January show is Stockton, there's no need for 4H affiliation to do showmanship.

In our county, independent exhibitors can show at both county fairs. Perhaps you can lobby the fair board, or perhaps also your local 4H is worth working with.

I know there are some knowledge events going around in California, and there was a big one last year in the Central Valley. It was too far for us to go, but there are some things going on. I don't recall if it was 4H affiliated or not.

At the last fair we attended (and our fairs do use APA judges), the judge did an especially nice job of putting comments on the cage tags. Usually only 1-3 words, but extremely helpful to the exhibitor and to the spectators. It could be quick and simple like "- size" or "+type". It helped all the kids feel that their animal was judged, also.

On the SOP, our library system has a copy. Obviously you'll want to buy one if you're doing this for real, but if you're waiting for the next version, the library can get you started.

 

[poltroon]

Also, a plug for Poultry Press. There are quite a few columns and articles about breeding and selection, and if you feed Purina feeds, there are $5 coupons in each issue that will pay for your subscription. It's also where to go to find listings of breeders, results from shows, and upcoming shows.

Backyard Poultry magazine is also a really nice resource with good articles and many kid-friendly features.

 

[Robert Blosl]

You live in one of the best poultry states in the Country. It is large but there are some great chicken people there. What part of the state do you live in? What breed did you purchase and have questions about?

I try to hook up new people to a master breeder. This way they can get good breeding stock and then the master breeder can help you year in and year out with your breeders and they birds you plan to show.

Most master breeders hope you will come up to a close level to them this way you are a extension to their family line and they can go back and get a bird or two and cross back to their family lines.

I started helping two excellent breeders with my Rhode Island Red bantams. Then every two or four years we can swap a good bird with each other for a fresh shot of new blood yet the twenty year gene pool I have is still closed from outside birds from other strains which we do not want to cross in.

It takes time and you wil find your gang of great chicken people. Many of them are on this web site. Like breeding you got to go look for them. bob