Which breeds are eWh Wheaten? (BC Marans related.)

[Sparklee]

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Maybe. Maybe not. The birds are supposedly from pure lines. I guess we'll see.

 

[Krys109uk]

It seemed like the author was a Wyandotte breeder. If I had Wyandottes, that would be great. But I just wanted to learn more about other stuff, so I felt a lot of the information didn't apply to me.

Grant is, primarily, a wyandotte breeder. The same set of genes will work the same on any bird, he's just using wyandottes to illustrate the effects of the genes not that they're only relevant to wyandottes.
I expect most books will expact a certain amount of knowledge. Most people don't just bowl straight into genetics.​

 

[Sparklee]

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Oh, yes, of course. I didn't intend to be ungracious.

To quote the book: "... [W]e must remember that without the breeders who have between them kept the strains of exhibition poultry pure for centuries, we would undoubtedly have no way of quantifying and understanding the genes in the way we do today. Breeders are owed a lot of credit for their efforts and perseverance."

 

[pocopoyo]

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I don't think that Er/eWh Marans would be wasters to someone working on eWh/eWh Marans. They would still carry the dark egg genes that are the main thing that Marans breeders want to maintain and still have Marans type. Why couldn't someone maintain a strain of Marans that produces both wheaton and black copper birds. Both are valid varieties. Didn't the Wheaton Marans in the US come from the Black Copper imports? This gives you a wider genetic pool to work with. I think I would rather have an Er/eWh Black Copper Marans that I knew carried wheaton than a Marans/NewHampshire mutt.


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You can't visually identify which black coppers carry wheaton. That is why you need to do a test mating. Wheaton chicks have white or yellowish/red down. Black copper chicks have black or or brown/black down. You will know if your Black Coppers have wheaton if you produce any white/yellowish/red chicks. If you haven't hatched any wheaton chicks then you probably have nothing to worry about. If you hatch a wheaton chick then at least one male and one female carry eWh. The test matings would help you identify which individuals carry eWh.

POCOPOYO

 

[blackdotte]

It seems like if you ever get a wheaten chick from the BC marans, then you know your cock carries e^Wh.

What this tells you is that both parents carry Wheaten.
Test mating is designed to tell you what you have, the resulting chicks should be considered a waste product of the process, if you can't accept that then don't test mate. When I say a waste product I mean in relation to the pure breeding program for, in this case, BCs
but they may be useful to someone else's breeding program or as crossbred back yard layer. As long as the breeding is divulged to and
under stood by the purchaser.
David​

 

[Germaine_11.20]

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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What this tells you is that both parents carry Wheaten.
.... As long as the breeding is divulged to and
under stood by the purchaser.
David

Oh, yes, wheaten would indicate that both parents carry the gene. But if you have a flock of hens with one cock, you will know right off that the cock carries it; as to which hen...as you said, test matings.

I absolutely agree that one needs to be honest with purchasers as to one's birds.

 

[Sparklee]

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Right, they may not be wasters to someone working with eWh/eWh Marans, but I don't know. But they are to me, and I know of no one locally who's even heard of a Wheaten Marans, but then I only know 7 other homes with chickens. The are into stuff like production reds and feed store birds. Fine by me, but they're not going to be interested in working on Wheaten Marans.

I currently have in hand New Hampshire Reds for the test matings. If I went with Wheaten Marans like you want me to, then I'd have to wait until next late spring when it's safe to send hatching eggs through the mail. I'd have to wait 21 days for them to hatch and deal with the trouble involved with that. Then I'd have to brood them and I'd be into basically Novemeber or December of 2010 before I could do my test matings with the Wheaten Marans and Black Copper Marans. I don't want to wait that long if I have the option of using NH Reds in just a couple of months.

I have no idea why someone couldn't maintain a strain of Marans that
produces both Wheaten and Black Copper Marans. However, that would confuse my little pea brain. Plus, I think of that as dealing with mutts, but then I'm not a breeder and don't think like a breeder. Frankly, I'm not much of a chicken person either and don't think like a chicken person. I'm a city girl through and through and can't really be logical about it the way some folks can. It matters to me if my Black Copper Marans are pure or not. I don't know why. It just does. If I have Wheaten birds (or partial Wheaten birds) around here, I would be afraid that My Black Coppers would get tainted blood in them because I'm forgetful and incompetent and I know it. I forget to close gates. I forget to give some chickens scratch. I forget to collect eggs. I leave the water running sometimes. I forget to put the feeders away at night. The list goes on and on. Sooner or later, I would accidentally put a Wheaten cock in the Black Copper hens' pen and then I'd have a mess if those eggs were hatched by one of my broodies. I don't ever want to wonder if some of the Black Coppers are partially Wheaten; I want to be 100% positive that they're not.

If I ever want to give one of my 7 friends who has layers a Black Copper Marans hen as a gift (something I hope to be able to do), I don't want her/him to be (oops, I just remembered someone else I know with chickens so that's 8 friends with chickens, final answer) embarrassed if they ever run into someone and are told that their bird must be impure because the hackles are too yellowish.

I want *quality* birds and I don't think that ER/eWh that look like Black Copper Marans are quality.

It's like breeding a Barred Plymouth Rock to a White Plymouth Rock and then trying to claim that the resulting offspring is a pure Plymouth Rock. Maybe that's actually how it works in the world of chicken breeders, but I don't like it. I think that's silly. And that's exactly what having a 1/2 Black Copper Marans and 1/2 Wheaten Marans is to me. But again, I'm not a breeder and I don't see chickens through breeder eyes.

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I don't know.

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Okay.

I do think I understand where you're coming from, Pocopyo. However, I'm just not going to be doing it your way because it's not convenient for my temperment and timeframe. I think my plan is workable for me and I do appreciate your input. There's a whole lot of years into the future and what you've written has lodged in my brain. If I lose egg color later on, I'll probably be kicking myself for not doing it your way. (Although I think I have heard that I don't need Wheaten genetics to maintain egg color in my Black Coppers, but who knows?)

 

[pocopoyo]

Sparklee,

I don't know why you keep saying you are not a chicken breeder. You sound like a very reasonable breeder to me. You have a reasonable plan and a reasonable goal. I think it is great that you want to keep pure Black Copper Marans. That is a breed that needs breeders like you.

Blackdotte posted earlier what to expect from the test matings with New hampshires. Good luck with your project.

Let us know what the results are.

POCOPOYO