Which kinda brahma is this ? And wanna know if it's pullet.

[fluffycrow]

Exactly

 

[Rare]

Okay guys will update you

 

[BastyPutt]

This chick is black. For future reference, Mottled Brahmas are extremely rare in the US. I only know of one or two breeders from a facebook group. On the contrary, there are many more black/blue breeders but they're still quite rare. Black Brahmas have much larger amounts of white on them compared to other black breeds because their standard calls for yellow shanks and there is correlation between black enhancers and darker shanks. This leads to a more steely grey color. I had the same question with my Black Brahmas. Here's my thread from a few years ago.

Ok then - since I have been ingesting every single dry, terribly boring YouTube video and research paper I can on chicken genetics. - question I have been curious about since Nat is here too.

If you wanted to "create" a mottled Brahma for breeding stock, would it be possible without starting with a mottled brahma?

Obvious to show mottling, a chick would need to be a homozygote carrier - and I know the gene is recessive.

But, if I had a Mottled Java rooster for instance, and bred him with a light Brahma, all chicks will carry a single mottling gene. Then, if I have a reverse paring gender wise, and breed them, some chicks would carry two copies, and some would only have a single.

Question - could I then just continue this pattern until an end up with a cockerel and pullet with the desired appearance, and both obviously mottle homozygotes? I know there are other like feathered feet that would also need to fall into place.

My curiosity mainly comes from the CC Legbar - because when it comes to it, it is probably the greatest chicken creation. Not only is the blue egg with no alleles true, but also the autosexing. Logic says that in attempting to create a breed like this, breeding brown allele carriers with homozygote blue egg layers (which is how it started) you will end up with 100% green egg layers. But how would you get the brown allele out?!

 

[NatJ]

If you wanted to "create" a mottled Brahma for breeding stock, would it be possible without starting with a mottled brahma?

If you start with a mottled chicken, and a Brahma, you could eventually create a mottled Brahma. Starting with a black Brahma would make it go faster than starting with any other color of Brahma.

Obvious to show mottling, a chick would need to be a homozygote carrier - and I know the gene is recessive.

But, if I had a Mottled Java rooster for instance, and bred him with a light Brahma, all chicks will carry a single mottling gene. Then, if I have a reverse paring gender wise, and breed them, some chicks would carry two copies, and some would only have a single.

Question - could I then just continue this pattern until an end up with a cockerel and pullet with the desired appearance, and both obviously mottle homozygotes? I know there are other like feathered feet that would also need to fall into place.

Basically yes.

There are several other breeding patterns that would also work. For example, you could cross mottled x Brahma (all chicks have one copy of the mottling gene), then breed one of those crosses back to Brahma. Half the chicks would have one copy of the mottling gene, and half would have none. Keep a bunch of females who have good Brahma traits, and test-mate them to a mottled rooster to see which ones carry mottling (produce some mottled chicks). Breed them back to Brahma (half of chicks will carry mottling), then test mate again... This can make it faster to get your Brahma traits back, since the mottling gene is really the only thing you want from the other breed. It won't take too many generations to have "Brahmas" that carry the mottling gene, and then you would breed them together to get ones that actually show mottling.

My curiosity mainly comes from the CC Legbar - because when it comes to it, it is probably the greatest chicken creation. Not only is the blue egg with no alleles true, but also the autosexing. Logic says that in attempting to create a breed like this, breeding brown allele carriers with homozygote blue egg layers (which is how it started) you will end up with 100% green egg layers. But how would you get the brown allele out?!

I don't see why there would be any brown in the picture, if it started with blue layers and Leghorns who lay white. You could do the whole project without any of the genes that make a brown coating on the outside of the shell. So no brown eggs, no green eggs, just blue and white (not-blue).

As regards the blue or not-blue gene, yes breeding homozygous blue-layers to homozygous not-blue layers will give birds who lay blue and carry not-blue. You can breed some of those females with their brothers (same genes, but don't actually lay eggs). That cross will give you about 25% homozygous blue layers, 50% heterozygous blue layers (lay blue but carry not-blue), and 25% homozygous not-blue.

After that, it's just a matter of test-mating to see which birds are homozygous for blue and which are heterozygous. The hens that lay not-blue can be used to test the males. Males of an not-blue breed can be used to test the hens. For each test, cross the bird to a known not-blue bird, hatch a bunch of eggs, raise at least 6 or 7 daughters to laying age, and see what color they produce. If all daughters lay blue eggs, the bird being tested is likely homozygous for the blue egg gene (but you could do another test, with more daughters, if you want to be more certain.) If you get at least one daughter who lays blue, and at least one daughter who lays not-blue, then the bird being tested is a heterozygote. If the daughters all lay not-blue, then the bird is most likely homozygous for not-blue (this should only happen when you are testing roosters, because there is no need to test a hen who lays not-blue eggs: you already know she is homozygous for not-blue.)

 

[BastyPutt]

Thanks Nat. This is helpful

I don't see why there would be any brown in the picture

It depends on which of the 1000 stories you believe on how the CCL came to be. Each time I clicked a link, someone seemed to say the breed started and was developed entirely different than the last!

After that, it's just a matter of test-mating

This is exactly what I thought. And like you said, you can only test with females. But then there are the males...

How in the world would you actually know if the males are really homozygous for the blue egg gene. I kept thinking if they hatched from a blue egg, then that means they are - but that don't seem right. I lost that train of thought.

 

[NorthFLChickenChick]

Hi…just thought I’d drop in here…i picked these two brahmas up from a chick farm when they were a day old, advertised as “Light Brahmas”….but clearly, shown below at one week and seven weeks…Bunny is somewhere in the middle of Light and Dark (they weren’t selling Dark Brahmas that day)

 

[NatJ]

How in the world would you actually know if the males are really homozygous for the blue egg gene. I kept thinking if they hatched from a blue egg, then that means they are - but that don't seem right. I lost that train of thought.

To test that: mate the male to a non-blue-egg female, hatch a bunch of chicks, raise all the daughters, see what color eggs they lay. If even one daughter lays not-blue, you know the male has the not-blue-egg gene. If you have large numbers of daughters, and every single one lays blue eggs, the male is homozygous for the blue egg gene. It takes about 6-7 daughters laying blue eggs to be 90-something percent sure their father is homozygous for the blue egg gene, and more daughters will make you even more sure.

A genetic test was recently developed, to test for the blue egg gene. That can make things simpler, but of course it was not available when the Cream Legbars were being developed.

 

[BastyPutt]

A genetic test was recently developed, to test for the blue egg gene.

Do you know if this something readily available to backyard enthusiasts?

 

[NatJ]

Do you know if this something readily available to backyard enthusiasts?

Yes, it is pretty easy to do.
https://iqbirdtesting.com/blueegg