Which rare breed LF should I get into? Suggestions, please!
- Thread starter awesomefowl
- Start date
Quote:
Much agreement!
Except, there's far more colors out than than dark and buff Brahmas. The cool ones are the laced or partridge. (which are much more rare, too)
That's true...but not everyone has $400 to $1000 to drop on hatching eggs of non-recognized colors that may or may not hatch and that may or may not yield the result they are wanting.
I will admit that I wanted to get those buff laced but can't justify that financially right now (heck, maybe not ever!) Besides if my husband found that how much I'd spent on those...I'd probably be living in the coop (if not divorced!) LOL
The buffs and darks need more people working on them...I see a lot of hatchery-quality that needs help!
But they are big, friendly birds that are hardy and lay well. I loved my lights when I had them but I just wanted something different...
Except, there's far more colors out than than dark and buff Brahmas. The cool ones are the laced or partridge. (which are much more rare, too)
That's true...but not everyone has $400 to $1000 to drop on hatching eggs of non-recognized colors that may or may not hatch and that may or may not yield the result they are wanting.
I will admit that I wanted to get those buff laced but can't justify that financially right now (heck, maybe not ever!) Besides if my husband found that how much I'd spent on those...I'd probably be living in the coop (if not divorced!) LOL
The buffs and darks need more people working on them...I see a lot of hatchery-quality that needs help!
First I want to say that Lav Orps and Hemadoras are not heritage by the current definition. Anyways I would recommend that you get Lamonas because they are a really rare breed. If you can not find them then I would recommend that you get a mediterainian breed other then white or brown leghorns.
Personally I think light Brahmas look FAR worse than buffs and darks from hatcheries. . . But, in terms of show quality, true to type birds - I think I see less Buffs than any other recognized color.
Lamonas? Last I heard a guy who actually found some paid over $1200 for a pair.
That is far more expensive than laced Brahma eggs, as for one the prices are going down on them, and two so far people have been getting some good hatch rates.
I'm definitely on board for some rare Brahma colors this spring.
But, I'm crazy enough to spend lots of money on poultry, and luckily my family doesn't object to it. It's my money.
Lamonas? Last I heard a guy who actually found some paid over $1200 for a pair.
I'm definitely on board for some rare Brahma colors this spring.
I agree with the comment that said do more research. There has been a lot of names passed around, one that I want to mess with is the Kraienkoeppe. There are a total two breeders, and Mr. George only classifies himself as a "Hobbyist" I think (though I call him a breeder, he's a cool dude to talk to.)
An article by Mr. George regarding Kraienkoeppes. He wrote it for the SPPA.
"What is it about Kraienkoppes?
Some weekends ago I was working in the garden, near our house, when my son called from college and wanted to chat. Not having the skill to wield the fork with only one hand, I retired to the hammock to chat. As I got into the hammock I happily noted the contented noises coming from our flock of black breasted red Kraienkoppes, some of which were scouting for bugs in our pasture and others in the yard.
At one point during the conversation I leaned back in the hammock and looked up at the sky. WAY UP THERE I spotted a hawk circling in the sky. It was almost too small to discern. Simultaneously I noticed that the poultry noises were gone. I looked over and saw that all our birds had either gone inside the coop or under brush piles! I thought, Now thats what I like about this bird!
Actually, theres a lot to this breed. How did we select the Kraienkoppe? Why do we stick with it? Let me start out with why we selected it. Back in 2001, when our family returned from living in Mexico, we all wanted to raise chickens, and, we wanted to focus on one breed. Some in our family wanted red roosters and black breasted red was close enough. Our son had fond memories of the game fowl his buddies in Mexico raised. He wanted something similar in appearance and nesting habits. We all had fond memories of the game fowl raised by our Mexican veterinarian. They would roost in mesquite trees and lay eggs in horse trailers and unattended pick up trucks. We fondly remembered the vet trying to leave on calls and having to remove eggs and an occasional indignant hen out of the front seat, while muttering something about chicken soup! The Kraienkoppe has similar habits. We have managed to keep them (mainly) roosting in the coop. But if the Kraienkoppe had to, it would do better than most roughing it.
The Kraienkoppe lays pretty well. Its eggs are medium to small, but plentiful. It excels in broodiness. This does mean that production, though good, can at times be uneven. Weve taken to freezing excess eggs so we never lack during those times when the hens all want to be mommas.
The original stock, from which the Kraienkoppe was derived is the Pheasant Malay in the Orient. Craig Russell tells me that it is little changed from the original, and that, last time he was in that part of the world he observed birds which fit the basic breed description. In Indonesian and Malaysia, these birds are (or were) kept for everything, as game fowl still are in various parts of the world. They were entertainment, egg and meat birds, even if they were not so specialized as some modern breeds in any one of those categories. They definitely were fought in Holland before cock fighting was banned; and up till that time there were a good number of color variations. When cock fighting was banned the Europeans began selecting for egg laying, and for show, and the black breasted red and silver duckwing were the only two varieties standardized. They were crossed with local fowl and Leghorns and they were developed for the small homestead or back yard fancier. The Kraienkoppe was recognizable in Europe, in the early 1800s, and was officially recognized in the later part of that century. Here in the USA the Kraienkoppe is not recognized by the APA, but bantams are recognized by the ABA (Ive never heard of anyone who has these.)
Personally, heres what I like about the Kraienkoppe:
1) I love collecting a couple broodies out of the hay barn before bed time. I know their hide outs and enjoy picking them up while listening to their chirring complaints about being removed from their hidden nests.
2) They are wonderful, fierce mothers. Roosters are not aggressive with other members of the flock. But the hens, when caring for young, are AWESOME. I once observed a cockerel get wupped by a hen who had newborns. The two actually sparred as if both were roosters. She beat him roundly, and then finished by doing a little two step and crowing!
3) Though, due to broodiness, they can be a bit sporadic in egg production, they are pretty productive. They do cut costs a bit because of their propensity to forage. This is one variety which is extremely determined to free range and forage. The down side on this is that it is a challenge to keep them out of gardens and, if you live near one, the road.
4) Though rather small, they are good eating; and since were trying to select for improved type we have good reason to produce a lot of birds for the pot.
5) I tend to prefer going the other way than the crowd. In gardening I maintain vegetable varieties which are almost unheard of, yet very good. So, I kind of gravitate to a variety like this. The Kraienkoppe is very rare yet a good practical bird for the small homestead..
In closing, let me share a few more observations about this breed.
- they dont feather pick at all
- they are extremely vigilant regarding predators, especially from above
- they are friendly (from arms length) yet scandalous and flighty
- they are 100% broody. All hens go broody sometimes nearly all at once
- they are good winter layers
- they handle high temperatures extremely well
- they can and do fly.
- they have a high level of vitality and disease resistance
- roosters are very non aggressive. I presently have 7 in with the flock and almost no
fights. However Ive been told they can be tough on new roosters introduced to an
established flock.
- The Kraienkoppe is a voracious hunter of insects. But for some reason it seems to be
in the genes to ignore rodents and other small animals like lizards, etc.
- egg color is white to tinted
- fertility and hatchability is excellent
- This is not a cuddly breed. Kraienkoppes become alarmed, when one so much as
pauses to focus a camera on them.
The breed, is in need of selection here in North America. Perhaps another time Ill write with some observations on selection for conformation and color.
George McLaughlin Jr
17361 E 690 Road
Tahlequah OK 74464
(918) 453-2857
[email protected]"
I plan to work on them via the type of the Netherlands, and their temperaments. Most people in the US call them flighty birds and get rid of them, but a conversation of the true Kraienkoeppes VIA a Netherlands breeder I have contact with says this "Assuming you have raised Oriental games.. Would you say that is along the lines of how the Kraienkoppe should be in personality? When I think of lively and active, I think of birds like my Shamo who will walk/strut everywhere, is alert. But not wild/flightly like the people in the states believe, my Shamo is calm enough I can walk up to him and pick him up."
Reply "I agree with you on how they are like any other gamebird, i've had taiwans, and now Satsumadori and all are quite easy going. Mine (those bbreds on the wiki page) would go for a walk with me into the field, and i could pick them up just as well." The wiki page she mentions is the Ultimatefowl wikipedia.
-Daniel
An article by Mr. George regarding Kraienkoeppes. He wrote it for the SPPA.
"What is it about Kraienkoppes?
Some weekends ago I was working in the garden, near our house, when my son called from college and wanted to chat. Not having the skill to wield the fork with only one hand, I retired to the hammock to chat. As I got into the hammock I happily noted the contented noises coming from our flock of black breasted red Kraienkoppes, some of which were scouting for bugs in our pasture and others in the yard.
At one point during the conversation I leaned back in the hammock and looked up at the sky. WAY UP THERE I spotted a hawk circling in the sky. It was almost too small to discern. Simultaneously I noticed that the poultry noises were gone. I looked over and saw that all our birds had either gone inside the coop or under brush piles! I thought, Now thats what I like about this bird!
Actually, theres a lot to this breed. How did we select the Kraienkoppe? Why do we stick with it? Let me start out with why we selected it. Back in 2001, when our family returned from living in Mexico, we all wanted to raise chickens, and, we wanted to focus on one breed. Some in our family wanted red roosters and black breasted red was close enough. Our son had fond memories of the game fowl his buddies in Mexico raised. He wanted something similar in appearance and nesting habits. We all had fond memories of the game fowl raised by our Mexican veterinarian. They would roost in mesquite trees and lay eggs in horse trailers and unattended pick up trucks. We fondly remembered the vet trying to leave on calls and having to remove eggs and an occasional indignant hen out of the front seat, while muttering something about chicken soup! The Kraienkoppe has similar habits. We have managed to keep them (mainly) roosting in the coop. But if the Kraienkoppe had to, it would do better than most roughing it.
The Kraienkoppe lays pretty well. Its eggs are medium to small, but plentiful. It excels in broodiness. This does mean that production, though good, can at times be uneven. Weve taken to freezing excess eggs so we never lack during those times when the hens all want to be mommas.
The original stock, from which the Kraienkoppe was derived is the Pheasant Malay in the Orient. Craig Russell tells me that it is little changed from the original, and that, last time he was in that part of the world he observed birds which fit the basic breed description. In Indonesian and Malaysia, these birds are (or were) kept for everything, as game fowl still are in various parts of the world. They were entertainment, egg and meat birds, even if they were not so specialized as some modern breeds in any one of those categories. They definitely were fought in Holland before cock fighting was banned; and up till that time there were a good number of color variations. When cock fighting was banned the Europeans began selecting for egg laying, and for show, and the black breasted red and silver duckwing were the only two varieties standardized. They were crossed with local fowl and Leghorns and they were developed for the small homestead or back yard fancier. The Kraienkoppe was recognizable in Europe, in the early 1800s, and was officially recognized in the later part of that century. Here in the USA the Kraienkoppe is not recognized by the APA, but bantams are recognized by the ABA (Ive never heard of anyone who has these.)
Personally, heres what I like about the Kraienkoppe:
1) I love collecting a couple broodies out of the hay barn before bed time. I know their hide outs and enjoy picking them up while listening to their chirring complaints about being removed from their hidden nests.
2) They are wonderful, fierce mothers. Roosters are not aggressive with other members of the flock. But the hens, when caring for young, are AWESOME. I once observed a cockerel get wupped by a hen who had newborns. The two actually sparred as if both were roosters. She beat him roundly, and then finished by doing a little two step and crowing!
3) Though, due to broodiness, they can be a bit sporadic in egg production, they are pretty productive. They do cut costs a bit because of their propensity to forage. This is one variety which is extremely determined to free range and forage. The down side on this is that it is a challenge to keep them out of gardens and, if you live near one, the road.
4) Though rather small, they are good eating; and since were trying to select for improved type we have good reason to produce a lot of birds for the pot.
5) I tend to prefer going the other way than the crowd. In gardening I maintain vegetable varieties which are almost unheard of, yet very good. So, I kind of gravitate to a variety like this. The Kraienkoppe is very rare yet a good practical bird for the small homestead..
In closing, let me share a few more observations about this breed.
- they dont feather pick at all
- they are extremely vigilant regarding predators, especially from above
- they are friendly (from arms length) yet scandalous and flighty
- they are 100% broody. All hens go broody sometimes nearly all at once
- they are good winter layers
- they handle high temperatures extremely well
- they can and do fly.
- they have a high level of vitality and disease resistance
- roosters are very non aggressive. I presently have 7 in with the flock and almost no
fights. However Ive been told they can be tough on new roosters introduced to an
established flock.
- The Kraienkoppe is a voracious hunter of insects. But for some reason it seems to be
in the genes to ignore rodents and other small animals like lizards, etc.
- egg color is white to tinted
- fertility and hatchability is excellent
- This is not a cuddly breed. Kraienkoppes become alarmed, when one so much as
pauses to focus a camera on them.
The breed, is in need of selection here in North America. Perhaps another time Ill write with some observations on selection for conformation and color.
George McLaughlin Jr
17361 E 690 Road
Tahlequah OK 74464
(918) 453-2857
[email protected]"
I plan to work on them via the type of the Netherlands, and their temperaments. Most people in the US call them flighty birds and get rid of them, but a conversation of the true Kraienkoeppes VIA a Netherlands breeder I have contact with says this "Assuming you have raised Oriental games.. Would you say that is along the lines of how the Kraienkoppe should be in personality? When I think of lively and active, I think of birds like my Shamo who will walk/strut everywhere, is alert. But not wild/flightly like the people in the states believe, my Shamo is calm enough I can walk up to him and pick him up."
Reply "I agree with you on how they are like any other gamebird, i've had taiwans, and now Satsumadori and all are quite easy going. Mine (those bbreds on the wiki page) would go for a walk with me into the field, and i could pick them up just as well." The wiki page she mentions is the Ultimatefowl wikipedia.
-Daniel
Quote:
What's critical or rare about all heritage breeds is they are not up to the standard of the original purpose or purposes they were designed for. RIR's, BR's and Dels and others were designed so they could be eaten after they were a certain age and after laying dropped off. You can not do that with any of these breeds today.
What we heritage breeders are trying to do is breed to the standard so that these breeds are once again the "dual" purpose breeds they once were. Not just egg producers or meat birds that explode if not processed in time. This is why hatcheries cull all unsold males of leghorns and production reds and the like. If raised to age they would have no meat on them.
However if you are keeping "true" dual purpose breeds you will not have to raise chicks til they can be sexed and then culled at what I consider an unprofitable and unacceptable age. You will get decent egg producing hens, who when she is done laying can be put in the stew pot and eatable roosters. Which by the way you will not get from hatcheries, IMO.
I suggest the OP do some research in Storey's poultry book and choose a breed that fancies themselves. I prefer Delawares but there are others I would choose to keep if I could keep more than one breed to work with.
Happy chicken keeping
Rancher
What's critical or rare about all heritage breeds is they are not up to the standard of the original purpose or purposes they were designed for. RIR's, BR's and Dels and others were designed so they could be eaten after they were a certain age and after laying dropped off. You can not do that with any of these breeds today.
What we heritage breeders are trying to do is breed to the standard so that these breeds are once again the "dual" purpose breeds they once were. Not just egg producers or meat birds that explode if not processed in time. This is why hatcheries cull all unsold males of leghorns and production reds and the like. If raised to age they would have no meat on them.
However if you are keeping "true" dual purpose breeds you will not have to raise chicks til they can be sexed and then culled at what I consider an unprofitable and unacceptable age. You will get decent egg producing hens, who when she is done laying can be put in the stew pot and eatable roosters. Which by the way you will not get from hatcheries, IMO.
I suggest the OP do some research in Storey's poultry book and choose a breed that fancies themselves. I prefer Delawares but there are others I would choose to keep if I could keep more than one breed to work with.
Happy chicken keeping
Rancher
Quote:
I've been meaning to ask... I was told the http://albc-usa.org/ counts hatchery stock in their lists so not exactly the same as looking at pure breeding pairs... IS there a list somewhere that shows that info? I'd love to see it.
Figure that wouldn't be too off topic... breed selection and all... appreciate any linkage.
I've been meaning to ask... I was told the http://albc-usa.org/ counts hatchery stock in their lists so not exactly the same as looking at pure breeding pairs... IS there a list somewhere that shows that info? I'd love to see it.
Figure that wouldn't be too off topic... breed selection and all... appreciate any linkage.
Quote:
You can add Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds to that list.
Chris
Chris--do you have those?? Do you show them? I'm looking at possibly adding them to my flock next spring....I can't decide between the whites or the reds....or something completely different. LOL
You can add Rose Comb Rhode Island Reds to that list.
Chris
Chris--do you have those?? Do you show them? I'm looking at possibly adding them to my flock next spring....I can't decide between the whites or the reds....or something completely different. LOL
I would also suggest joining the SPPA--once a year they send out a book of breeders...it's a great resource.
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