White Rock Hen cross

[gojira]

White Rocks are supposed to be Silver base color, recessive white, with the barring gene, but hatchery sourced birds are sometimes dominant white. When crossed with the Silver Laced Wyandotte, offspring should be similar to a Delaware, but with rose combs.

You keep spreading misinformation. You really should research more, and ask more questions, before you make more false statements. There is no "silver base color". Silver is a modifier. Base colors are black and brown. Show me where you get that hatchery White Plymouth Rocks are sometimes dominant white? This is the second time I have seen you make this statement, and you could not back it up before. These birds are neither standard bred, nor obtained from a hatchery. In this particular case, chicks will likely be white, possibly with flecks of color.

 

[junebuggena]

You keep spreading misinformation. You really should research more, and ask more questions, before you make more false statements. There is no "silver base color". Silver is a modifier. Base colors are black and brown. Show me where you get that hatchery White Plymouth Rocks are sometimes dominant white? This is the second time I have seen you make this statement, and you could not back it up before. These birds are neither standard bred, nor obtained from a hatchery. In this particular case, chicks will likely be white, possibly with flecks of color.

My evidence for hatchery White Rocks being dominant white are the Golden Comet red sexlinks. Golden Comets are New Hampshire/White Rock crosses. They are red/gold with dominant white modifying black. Golden Comets don't get that white from the New Hampshire, it must have come from the White Rock. It must be dominant white and not silver because hens can not have both a red/gold gene and a silver gene.
All chickens have black pigment genes and red/gold/brown base color genes. Chickens are not only black or only brown. Both gene groups exist in every individual. Even completely solid black birds have red/gold or silver ground color genes.
To say that chickens can only be black ground color or brown would mean that black pigment could not exist in birds with brown ground color. If that is true, how is it possible to get patterns like Birchen or partridge, where birds clearly have black pigment AND brown modifiers?

 

[junebuggena]

Base colors are black and brown.

Actually, no.
Chickens have 2 kinds of pigment that define their plumage color. These are the black pigment eumelanine, melanin for short, and the yellow/red pigment pheomelanin. The groundcolor of a chicken is pheomelanin.

 

[allisonb20]

I'll be sure to share pics in the spring when I try it because if any are white chicks I'll know where they came from. Still not sure if I'll get white chicks or blackish chicks. Found a post on here with a hatchery white rock hen and a SLW that made SLW-esque chicks, but also reading a post from a buckeye x Cornish cross that are white with a little yellow and some very light spots. I would still call them white chickens. Not sure how the buckeye compares to the SLW in terms of dominate features, but the white female showed through.

I guess it also goes back to if I have the maternal White rock or the Cobb X, and if they last until late winter. The buckeye post had quite a few die on him younger than a year. Also might lean mine toward the white rock side of the guessing.

 

[gojira]

My evidence for hatchery White Rocks being dominant white are the Golden Comet red sexlinks. Golden Comets are New Hampshire/White Rock crosses. They are red/gold with dominant white modifying black. Golden Comets don't get that white from the New Hampshire, it must have come from the White Rock. It must be dominant white and not silver because hens can not have both a red/gold gene and a silver gene.
All chickens have black pigment genes and red/gold/brown base color genes. Chickens are not only black or only brown. Both gene groups exist in every individual. Even completely solid black birds have red/gold or silver ground color genes.
To say that chickens can only be black ground color or brown would mean that black pigment could not exist in birds with brown ground color. If that is true, how is it possible to get patterns like Birchen or partridge, where birds clearly have black pigment AND brown modifiers?

Actually, no.
Chickens have 2 kinds of pigment that define their plumage color. These are the black pigment eumelanine, melanin for short, and the yellow/red pigment pheomelanin. The groundcolor of a chicken is pheomelanin.

Golden Comets are a proprietary cross, and not exactly New Hampshires and White Plymouth Rocks, although they may be in the ancestry of the lines used. Hatcheries buy the male parents and female parents, or else buy the eggs to hatch out Golden Comets. These are not the New Hampshires and White Plymouth Rocks that the hatcheries sell. So again, where is the proof behind your statement that "hatchery sourced birds are sometimes dominant white"?

The E locus controls the basic distribution of the black and brown base colors. Phaeomelanin simply means brown melanin, so you only verified that i was correct. From there, there are other genes that distribute the pigments, and modify the pigments. This is usually discussed on day one of a poultry genetics class. You need to learn the basics. Gold/silver modifies the brown in the plumage, and is not itself a base color. Again, ask questions, read, and research. If you want me to explain something, feel free to ask.

 

[The Moonshiner]

I was unaware that any hatchery used white rocks to make golden comets. Curious now which one does?
I have cackle hatchery sourced golden comets and they are "cherry eggers" (which are one of their Rhode island red lines. That line focused on the deep red color) over Rhode island whites.
Cackle also has their "pedigree pure" Rhode island red line that are crossed with Delaware hens to produce their red sex links.
Also cinnamon queens which are from the same Rhode island red line as the golden comets but the lighter red color that didn't split to their cherry egger line.
Their production reds are their "pedigree pure" Rhode island reds over new Hampshire's.
Just goes to show that all "red sex links" aren't the same crosses and red sex links, golden comets, cinnamon queens, red stars, etc aren't all the same with different names.

 

[Titan Farm]

''Pigmentation in birds and mammals results to a large extent from the
deposition and assembly of two different types of melanin, (brown-to-black)
eumelanin and (yellow-to-reddish-brown) pheomelanin.''
http://uu.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:174472/FULLTEXT02.pd

''There are only two types of pigment when it comes to poultry: black and red''
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/an-introduction-to-poultry-plumage/
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/an-introduction-to-poultry-plumage/
''The colors of chicken feathers are achieved by diluting and enhancing or masking black and red. For example, Rhode Island Reds have the gold gene with the dominant mahogany (red-enhancing) gene.''
http://articles.extension.org/pages...or-small-and-backyard-flocks:-an-introduction

 

[The Moonshiner]

Genetics of Chickencolors:
Groundcolor:
Chickens have 2 kinds of pigment that define their plumage color. These are the black (sometimes darkbrown/chocolate) pigment eumelanine, melanin for short, and the yellow/red pigment pheomelanine.

The groundcolor of a chicken is pheomelanine. When this is absent it is called "silver" which looks white.

The common silver-gene allows the expression of some red features like salmon breast or red shoulders.

In wildtype chickens the groundcolor is yellow to brown, it is called "gold". By so called red enhancers this gold can be boosted to a (dark) red color.
For example the mahogany colored Rhode Island Red.

The gold can be diluted to a yellow, cream or lemon color. The groundcolor can thus be silver, gold, red or yellow.

 

[gojira]

Were you guys trying to spell out what I said about the two basic colors? As far as red sex links, some are commercial crosses of special male and female lines, and not simply one breed bred to another. There are two types of red sex links. In one, a gold male is bred to a silver female. In the other, a gold male is bred to a silver female that also has dominant white.

 

[Parront]

Hi, thought you might like to see what this guy is doing, he calls his "Toads"
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/raising-large-table-birds.68027/