white sumatra

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
that would be cool looking, but if the barred rock male was used, it wouldnt be birchen, it would be barred or cuckoo.
When a barred male bird is used in any crossing, the results are single factored barred offspring (single factored being one with just 1 copy of the barred gene, double factored is when it comes from both barred parents) Barred hens when used in a cross dont have that effect, you get a whole mix of things then.


If a barred rock hen was used, it is very possible that that is where they came from.
I am also make creles in the d'anver right now. Obviously using male cuckoos over bb red hens for that. Well while I had that breeding pen going, I just put my male bb reds with the female cuckoos. From that crossing everything did turn out brown reds (gold birchens)

 

[tadkerson]

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i doubt that, the reason the rooster doesnt look like a normal splash is because he has both dominant white and splash in him, it is not mottling. here is my rooster who is a red columbian with dominant white:https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/71540_dec_16th_chicken_pictures_006.jpgas you can see the dominant white has a similar afect on red, but it is not mottling.

I would agree this bird is not mottled. I would say he is heterozygous dominant white, heterozygous silver/gold, heterozygous columbian restricted. The mottled look in his breast is due to him being heterozygous columbian. He does have a bunch of red in him but that is due to mahogany and autosomal red.

Tim

 

[tadkerson]

Sumatra do carry the mottling gene- the gene is recessive so it is not expressed in the adult plumage. I agree with Dan- the bird does appear to be mottled.

Tim

 

[gallo4319]

Quote:
hi

I have a question about the blue sumatras.
if blue sumatras throw back splashed chickens, does that mean that they carry the mottling gene?
if so is it wrong to call them splash instead of mottling sumatra.?
if you have more info about the blue color in sumatras and the origin of this color please share , i would like to know how it interact with other color ?
thank you in advance

 

[josh44]

Quote:
hi

I have a question about the blue sumatras.
if blue sumatras throw back splashed chickens, does that mean that they carry the mottling gene?
if so is it wrong to call them splash instead of mottling sumatra.?
if you have more info about the blue color in sumatras and the origin of this color please share , i would like to know how it interact with other color ?
thank you in advance

Splash & mottleing are two very different colors,

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Quote:
hi

I have a question about the blue sumatras.
if blue sumatras throw back splashed chickens, does that mean that they carry the mottling gene?
if so is it wrong to call them splash instead of mottling sumatra.?
if you have more info about the blue color in sumatras and the origin of this color please share , i would like to know how it interact with other color ?
thank you in advance

no does not mean they have mottled in them. Blue in sumatra breeds just like all other blue chickens.

The hatch ratio from blue to blue is 25% black 50% blue and 25% splash.
Splash on splash will breed true,
splash to black is all blue
blue to black is 50 % of each
blue to splash is 50% of each

The mottling is a unrealated gene and has to come from somewhere else.
From what I have been able to decifer off the chicken calculator, it looks like some how if you breed a black mottled to a dominate white bird it causes this reverse mottling called exchequer which from what I have seen in other birds is very similar to what you have in that sumatra. According to the calculator, being dominate white based, blue will have no effect on the color pattern. Meaning you can not "blue" the black parts of that particular bird due to the dominate white in them. How the black remains??? Lord I have no idea. But if you put in a dominate white bird and cross it to a black mottled bird, it shows all white offspring split to mottled. Now back cross those and you get the exchequer looking mottled white bird.


Like I said earlier, there are silkies over in Europe with the exact same white body with black streaks in them. They are called paint silkies. You can google them and see the similarities in them. But again, I'm not sure of the genetics. They look like what is commonly called exchequer birds (found in leghornsthat color (as it's very rare). Google image search Exchequer leghorns and compare them to the black and white sumatras, very similar looking.

 

[gallo4319]

Quote:
hi

I have a question about the blue sumatras.
if blue sumatras throw back splashed chickens, does that mean that they carry the mottling gene?
if so is it wrong to call them splash instead of mottling sumatra.?
if you have more info about the blue color in sumatras and the origin of this color please share , i would like to know how it interact with other color ?
thank you in advance

no does not mean they have mottled in them. Blue in sumatra breeds just like all other blue chickens.

The hatch ratio from blue to blue is 25% black 50% blue and 25% splash.
Splash on splash will breed true,
splash to black is all blue
blue to black is 50 % of each
blue to splash is 50% of each

The mottling is a unrealated gene and has to come from somewhere else.
From what I have been able to decifer off the chicken calculator, it looks like some how if you breed a black mottled to a dominate white bird it causes this reverse mottling called exchequer which from what I have seen in other birds is very similar to what you have in that sumatra. According to the calculator, being dominate white based, blue will have no effect on the color pattern. Meaning you can not "blue" the black parts of that particular bird due to the dominate white in them. How the black remains??? Lord I have no idea. But if you put in a dominate white bird and cross it to a black mottled bird, it shows all white offspring split to mottled. Now back cross those and you get the exchequer looking mottled white bird.


Like I said earlier, there are silkies over in Europe with the exact same white body with black streaks in them. They are called paint silkies. You can google them and see the similarities in them. But again, I'm not sure of the genetics. They look like what is commonly called exchequer birds (found in leghornsthat color (as it's very rare). Google image search Exchequer leghorns and compare them to the black and white sumatras, very similar looking.

thank you for your answers
i got some brand new chicks from the black sumatra and the white black sumatra hen .
some came out blue ,black and others just like her when she was little (whites with black spots)
do you think if i keep breeding her offspring with black sumatras the white on the next offpring will turn blue?

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

not unless you use some of her blue offspring.
From the combos I have ran, you can some how keep getting black and blue off the exchequer birds if you breed her to a black or blue even with them being dominate white based, BUT I havent been able to get it to turn the exchequer black and white to blue and white.
Really kind of stumped how blues are coming out of a black roo to that hen to start with though?? She must be carring a good blue gene some how and it's just not showing.

Like I said, that color's new to me, all this has came from combos ran threw Hink's chicken calculator.

 

[gallo4319]

thank you again.

 

[tadkerson]

Quote:
hi

I have a question about the blue sumatras.
if blue sumatras throw back splashed chickens, does that mean that they carry the mottling gene?
if so is it wrong to call them splash instead of mottling sumatra.?
if you have more info about the blue color in sumatras and the origin of this color please share , i would like to know how it interact with other color ?
thank you in advance

Blue sumatra can produce mottled (splashed ) chickens. If your cross a black that carries a mottling gene with a blue that carries a mottling gene then some of the offspring will be black mottled white and some could be blue mottled white. A person could produce a blue chicken with white mottling.

Splash is a term used to describe a bird that carries two blue genes- so splash should not be used to describe mottling. Mottling can take two forms- mottling as in the ancona or java; the other form is referred to as exchequer as in the leghorn. These forms of mottling are all on a black or even blue background.
Mottling is also used in making other color patterns like mille fleur and speckled. Some birds are incorrectly called spangled (black on end of feather) when they are actually mottled (white on the end of the feather).

The blue gene will dilute the black pigment on a chicken to a blue or gray color. The blue gene usually dilutes black found on any part of a chicken. So the breast of a black breasted red chicken will be diluted to a blue color by the blue gene- the bird will be blue breasted red. The blue gene does not normally dilute the black in the pyle region or tail feathers of a male chicken.

From what I have been able to decifer off the chicken calculator, it looks like some how if you breed a black mottled to a dominate white bird it causes this reverse mottling called exchequer which from what I have seen in other birds is very similar to what you have in that sumatra. According to the calculator, being dominate white based, blue will have no effect on the color pattern.

Breeding a black mottled bird to a dominant white bird will produce white birds not exchequers. Both the mottling and the dominant white genes add white to a chicken. Exchequers are black birds that are mottled. Some dominant white birds also carry the blue gene to help with any black ticking that may be expressed in the bird.

Tim​