Who says cedar is bad for chickens???

[LittleChickenRacingTeam]

Quote:
I am curious on what basis of evidence you say that?

AFAIK, typical cedar shavings have a much higher concentration of volatile oils than typical pine shavings (as used by consumer, I mean, not necessarily when they first come offa the logs)

Reference would be welcome.

BTW, let me point out that this really only applies to fresh cedar and cedar shavings/chips... cedar POSTS, used outdoors, are a total nonissue (because of the ventilation coefficient of The Great Outdoors) and cedar lumber is probably pretty ok too because of the small surface area which has in many cases already been pretty well depleted of volatile oils.

Basically, if something smells like a cedar closet (or fresh-cut pine tree, or any other resinous strong smell) when it's in an enclosed space, it would be wisest not to use it in an enclosed space.


Pat

University of Guelph (Animal Science Program) has all these refrences on the subject...

Ayars GH, Altman LC, Frazier CE, Chi EY. (1989) The toxicity of constituents of cedar and pine woods to pulmonary epithelium. J Allergy Clin Immunol 1989 Mar;83(3):610-8

Campagnolo ER, Trock SC, Hungerford LL, Shumaker TJ, Teclaw R, Miller RB, Nelson HA, Ross F, Reynolds DJ. Outbreak of vesicular dermatitis among horses at a midwestern horse show. J Am Vet Med Assoc 1995 Jul 15;207(2):211-3

Feron VJ, Arts JH, Kuper CF, Slootweg PJ, Woutersen RA. Health risks associated with inhaled nasal toxicants. Crit Rev Toxicol 2001 May;31(3):313-47

Kacergis JB, Jones RB, Reeb CK, Turner WA, Ohman JL, Ardman MR, Paigen B. Air quality in an animal facility: particulates, ammonia, and volatile organic compounds. Am Ind Hyg Assoc J 1996 Jul;57(7):634-40

Thomas JC, Carlton DL, Barzak PF. An improved method for evaluating hardwood animal bedding products. Lab Anim (NY) 2001 Jun;30(6):43-6

Pelkonen KH, Hanninen OO. Cytotoxicity and biotransformation inducing activity of rodent beddings: a global survey using the Hepa-1 assay. Toxicology 1997 Sep 26;122(1-2):73-80

Potgieter FJ, Wilke PI. Laboratory animal bedding: a review of specifications and requirements. J S Afr Vet Assoc 1991 Sep;62(3):143-6

Potgieter FJ, Wilke PI, van Jaarsveld H, Alberts DW. The in vivo effect of different bedding materials on the antioxidant levels of rat heart, lung and liver tissue. J S Afr Vet Assoc 1996 Mar;67(1):27-30

Torronen R, Pelkonen K, Karenlampi S. Enzyme-inducing and cytotoxic effects of wood-based materials used as bedding for laboratory animals. Comparison by a cell culture study. Life Sci 1989;45(6):559-65. Erratum in Life Sci 1989;45(24):2381

Vandenput S, Istasse L, Nicks B, Lekeux P. Airborne dust and aeroallergen concentrations in different sources of feed and bedding for horses. Vet Q 1997 Nov;19(4):154-8

Vogelzang PF, van der Gulden JW, Folgering H, Heederik D, Tielen MJ, van Schayck CP. Longitudinal changes in bronchial responsiveness associated with swine confinement dust exposure. Chest 2000 May;117(5):1488-95

Ward PL, Wohlt JE, Katz SE. Chemical, physical, and environmental properties of pelleted newspaper compared to wheat straw and wood shavings as bedding for horses. J Anim Sci 2001 Jun;79(6):1359-69

Welker JA, Zaloga GP. Pine oil ingestion: a common cause of poisoning. Chest 1999 Dec; 116(6): 1822-6

Weichbrod RH, Cisar CF, Miller JG, Simmonds RC, Alvares AP, Ueng TH. Effects of cage beddings on microsomal oxidative enzymes in rat liver. Lab Anim Sci 1988 Jun;38(3):296-8

Whelan G. The influence of cage bedding on the metabolism of sulphobromophthalein sodium by an hepatic cytosol-located enzyme system. Aust J Biol Sci 1975 Feb;28(1):25-9

 

[gumpsgirl]

Quote:
I would remove the cedar A.S.A.P. and put down pine shavings. Your coop may be ventilated BUT you also need to consider how close the chickens are to the cedar. As ivan3 stated, pine shavings would be your best bet. I can't afford aspen for my coop either, beings that it is large and takes large quantities of shavings to fill it. Go to your local farm supply store and they should have the pine shavings in large bags.

I really hate that your chickens are doing bad. I really hope that things improve for you.

 

[ivan3]

"Concentrations of ammonia, volatile organic compounds, particles, and mouse allergen were measured in an animal facility. Ammonia concentrations averaged less than 1 ppm, below any health-based standards. The concentrations of volatile organic compounds were in the 5-15 micrograms/m3 range. Among the volatile organic compounds found, only the terpenes a-pinene and a-terpinol (which may be derived from the pine shavings used as bedding) were consistently present in concentrations greater than outdoor air. The primary air contaminant present at concentrations high enough to be of known physiological significance was the mouse allergen, Mus ml."

That's from the link I provided above. I would like link to similar research conducted in `clinical' environments, e.g., backyard coops using kiln dried pine.

If I provided everything I have on Methylated Xanthines everyone would stop drinking coffee.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
LCRT, being asked to reference your statement usually means providing a SPECIFIC reference for it, not just a whole mess o' stuff that includes the general words being tossed around.

What you said, that I'm trying to get more information on, is that pine bedding is just as bad, aromatics-wise, as cedar bedding.

So could you please point me out to a specific passage in a specific paper that says that kiln-dried pine shavings (as normally bought for bedding purposes) contain/emit the same or greater concentrations of the problematic aromatic compounds as cedar shavings (as normally bought for bedding purposes) do.

Thank you,

Pat, no longer in academia and thus lacking access to most of those sources anymore, and in any case not inclined to footnote other peoples' arguments for them.

 

[leasmom]

That chicken died yesterday. I put sawdust in the coop this morning. I hope no other one dies.

 

[gumpsgirl]

Quote:
Oh, I'm so sorry. :aww

 

[Chez Poulet]

I've never used cedar because I heard bad things about it everywhere I've read in books and on BYC. I have used the white pine shavings since they were day olds and haven't lost a single chick out of 28 delivered and have 16 after giving the 12 away to friends. All are using the same thing and are healthy and after 6 months all but 2 are laying pretty regularly.

I use the pine shavings in the nest boxes too and they seem to like it, but they've never had any other choice. They like to put the pieces of the shavings on their backs when they are waiting for the egg to drop. Maybe just something to do? It's kind of cute to watch them do that.

So sorry about the death of your chicken, so sad.

 

[leasmom]

Me too...I don't want to lose any of them...

 

[cajunlizz]

I have over 100 head of chickens in 2 separate coops and I use pine shavings in both .

I been doing this since april 2008 and I have never had any problems with any of my flock .


I was told pine shavings are ok ... Cedar is NOT

 

[spokemanstack]

Wish I had found out about this sooner. Here's my situation. We are away from our house for 3 days and just before leaving the house I cleaned the coop and re-bedded it with cedar. This is the first time I've used cedar. I intend to clean out the cedar and replace with the wood shavings that I had been using previously (I think they were pine) as soon as I get home. The chickens are about 6 weeks old (3 Brahmas and 3 Rhode Island Reds). Are my chickens doomed? Should I expect dead or sick chickens when I get home? I'm worried.