Why am I losing chicks? :(

[mtgrl]

This is the second chick (bobwhite quail) I've lost before it hatched, the third from this hatch. The first chick I lost suddenly less than a day after it was born, I figured since its mother was sick it might have caught the same bug. The second chick I lost while I was gone for a couple days, and when I came back I found an egg that was cracked all the way around but not opened. I opened it up and found a dead chick inside that had dried up because he couldn't break through the membrane. The humidity in the incubator was only at 20% because I had not been present to fill up the water. So I figured that was the problem. Yesterday, an egg hatched without any problem and the little chick still appears healthy so far. Two other eggs pipped, and after what happened to the first egg, I felt urgently about getting the chick out. But, reading that you shouldn't interfere, I gave it a chance to hatch itself, figuring if it still hadn't hatched in the morning I'd try to help it. The humidity in the incubator at this point was at 75-80%, so I thought it wouldn't have a problem. So this morning, I looked in and found that the egg was almost cracked all the way around, and I could see the little chick pushing his way through the egg shell. He seemed so close to breaking through that I figured it would only be a matter of time, and since he'd made so much progress on his own, I felt no need to interfere. But I watched it intently for about an hour, and thought I'd give him two hours before I broke it open myself. I could hear it peeping and chipping away at the eggshell so I thought it was perfectly healthy and wouldn't need any help. Well, I waited an hour and a half, and when I went to check on it after a brief breakfast it wasn't moving anymore. So I opened it up and found a very large (about twice as big as the other ones that have hatched) seemingly perfectly healthy dead chick inside. The yolk sac hadn't been fully absorbed and there was some blood around that area, but other than that this chick looked totally ready to hatch and he wasn't dried out and I just don't understand why all these chicks are dying while they're trying to hatch. The thing is, when I pull the eggs apart, they have VERY tough membranes and even I can barely break it open. I'm surprised this chick was able to open it as far as he did. But I feel very sad because I feel like I should have helped it get out earlier when I knew what happened to the last one :/ I just don't understand because it was alive and peeping just an hour ago. Why do they die while they're trying to hatch? What kills them? And what should I do next time? I feel like opening up the other egg that had a pip in it, even though it's just a tiny pip and I know it's risky

Update: Just read that chicks that are born with the yolk sac still attached usually don't make it anyway. So maybe if I'd helped him out he still would've died... I just don't get why it did. The first two chicks were born perfectly healthy without any problems

 

[howfunkyisurchicken]

What temp and humidity were you running at during the first 18 days?
When mine runs high through the first part of incubation, I get a lot of dead in shell chicks like you're describing. And, usually if they're hatching before they're ready (with yolk unabsorbed) its a good sign temp may have been too high as well. Do you calibrate your hygrometer and thermometer before each hatch? It doesn't take much of a bump or drop to get them off...

 

[mtgrl]

The humidity would have been fluctuating. I basically followed the instructions that said to keep the water full, but didn't fill it up every day like it said. I just filled it up when it ran out. When it's full it reaches 70-80% humidity, when it starts getting low it goes to 50% and when it's empty it goes down to 20% and by then I will fill it up again.

The temp was actually lower than it was supposed to be most of the time, I turned it down after the first two chicks hatched because it's starting to get hot during the day and I didn't want to let the incubator get overheated, so usually it was a little under 99.5, except during the hot part of the day. I turned it up a little bit today thinking maybe it was too low. The first two chicks hatched when I had the incubator at a little higher temp than suggested, (I think it was around 105) and they seemed fine (it's really hard to adjust this to the right temp)

The incubator has a built-in thermometer and a second thermometer to place inside it. I don't know much about calibration, I just get an estimate from looking at the two thermometers the incubator came with

 

[mtgrl]

It's almost like the chick just outgrew his shell before he was done growing. It's so frustrating because the first two eggs I set hatched so perfectly I thought, this is going to be easy! I really didn't even take care of the first two very well at all because I was still testing the incubator out and the temp would be fluctuating from 85 to 120 a lot while I was trying to adjust it, and the humidity too, and yet they hatched just fine without any problems. The first two were so incredibly healthy that they were running and jumping around within minutes of hatching. When I finally get conditions stabilized, then I start having problems... and all my chicks seem really weak.

 

[ChickenLegs13]

You need to quit jacking around with the temperature and let the thermostat do it's job. What you want to see is 100* most of the time with .5* or even 1* dips & peaks.
The thermostat kicks on when the temp is falling and it will continue to fall to 99.5* or even 99* before it actually starts warming up. Likewise, when the thermostat kicks off the temp will continue to rise for a bit to 100.5* or even 101* because the heating element is still hot even though the thermostat turned it off. It's not going to maintain a constant temp.

Wafer thermostats are sensitive to barometric pressure so if the weather is changing, that whacks the temp also.

Large juicy chicks indicate too much humidity during incubation. The chicks are too large to turn in the shell, that's why they pip but don't zip.

I don't put any water in mine and it maintains about 20-30% humidity. At lockdown I remove the plugs & only fill channel #1 with water, giving me around 60% humidity. My chicks pip & zip quickly and aren't all wet, juicy, oversized and sluggish. They dry & become active quickly.

Hope that helped.

 

[mtgrl]

The thing is, I haven't touched the temperature at all during this hatch. It's been at a pretty stable temp the whole way through. The first two eggs I was adjusting the temp because I had just started the incubator, (turning it just a tiny tiny bit drastically changes the thermostat and it's really hard to get it just right) but after they hatched I kept it at the same temp then added this batch of eggs. I've kept everything pretty stable but this is the hatch that's screwy, which doesn't make any sense to me.

The first chick that died while hatching dried out. And I mean it was mummified when I found it, and it was only in there a day or two. So the humidity is probably screwy. I will try to add less water and see if it helps if I can keep it from getting too high or low. Thanks.

 

[ChickenLegs13]

Low humidity is never a bad thing and high humidity is never a good thing.
Last hatch I forgot to lockdown and my chicks started hatching @ 30% humidity. They were almost completely dry when they came out of the shell, they laid there for a minute then jumped up and hauled *****. Cots are the easiest thing in the world to hatch.

 

[mtgrl]

But low humidity can cause the eggs membrane to dry out so they have more difficulty hatching. I think that's what killed the first chick. He was totally normal, he just couldn't rip open the membrane. So he ended up drying out before he had a chance to hatch, even though it was only a day. There's dry air and then there's dry air. I've been down south and I know that you guys have some pretty humid air anyhow, but up here there's literally no moisture in the air. If I didn't add water, it wouldn't go down to 30%, it would go down to zero. The chicks would dry out and mummify immediately even if they did manage to hatch without some humidity. It would be like putting them in a dehydrator.

Anyway, I found two plugs I could pull out, and now the humidity is 40-50%. Two more eggs hatched today. The first one was having difficulty getting through the shell-he pipped all the way around and made a dotted line around the shell but couldn't get the egg to crack, so I helped him out. His toes were a little curled and he was having trouble standing up at first, so I bandaged one of his feet and now he's getting stronger and his feet seem to be straightening out some on both feet. Then as I was working on his feet another egg started moving around and within 15 minutes I had another chick. This guy didn't have any trouble hatching at all.

These eggs are just really tough to open, it's like rubber. Even when I eat them, peeling them is almost impossible. It might be a nutritional thing, I don't know, every egg seems a little different texture. But I'll keep an eye on them and the conditions inside the incubator. For now, the last two eggs have hatched somewhat successfully, so I'm feeling more optimistic about the rest. Thanks for the advice.

 

[ChickenLegs13]

I wasn't saying 30% was ideal for hatching or for you to do it, I was just using that as an example that the humidity doesn't have to be super high at hatching, and they still hatch fine. Search "dry hatching" on this board. Quail pip & zip so quickly they don't have time to shrink wrap or for the membrane to dry out.

You said your humidity varies from 80% to 20% as the water tray dries out, you need to keep it more stable than that. That's what's causing you grief, that's whats causing big fat gooey chicks that can't turn in the shell to zip fast enough and the membrane drys & toughens or they stick to the shell. Quail should take minutes to zip, not hours. You need to put some water in yours but not enough to raise it to 80% during incubation.

Use a smaller amount of water that only raises it to 40-50% during incubation. And remember, you don't control humidity by volume, you control it by surface area, i.e. 1 cup of water in a 4" bowl puts out less humidity than 1 cup of water in a 6" bowl.

Plus you never said how many eggs you were hatching or what kind of bator you were using. If you're hatching just a few eggs in a large bator that makes it harder to keep the temp & humidity stable too.
Hope all that made sense to you and helps some.

 

[mtgrl]

Yeah, now that I have the dishes filled up and all the plugs out it is staying pretty stable between 40-50% instead of fluctuating a lot. I just have 6 eggs left in there now, but the temp and humidity are stabilized enough to stay ideal. The three chicks that hatched are all perfectly healthy today so I seem to be having no more trouble. Thanks