Why is fermented feed getting moldy?

[Chris09]

On a broad enough level, everything ferments it's food - we have gut bacteria that help us digest things. Anytime anyone talks about probiotics, they're talking about supplementing their gut fauna.


Even the most effective digestive tracts do a pretty poor job of digesting food - ruminants poo a ton. Fermenting the food (using different bacteria/yeast) helps to break down some things that the animal can't break down themselves. If you could find the right fungus/bacteria, and enough time, you could feed animals almost anything (there are fungii that break down motor oil into simple sugars, fungii that break down plastics, etc)

They eat a ton also.
When you look at the "food to poo ratio " they poo a fraction of what they eat.
Example --
A milking dairy goat at my place putting out 2 gallon of milk per day (1 gallon per milking) will eat 2 to 2.5 lbs of grain and around 10 lbs of hay and pasture a day.
There is a lot more going in than whats coming out.

 

[bustedchicks]

Wow way off topic, lengthy and some misinformation. The original question was about mold in the fermentation.
With any type of fermentation process you do not want a sealed lid. Fermentation is a chemical process, elements are being rearranged creating the sought after product and a byproduct.

 

[LindaB220]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19373724/
It's disappointing that it can cause later egg production and makes their feathers not quite as pretty in the study, but I haven't found them to have bad quality colors or feathers at all. My flock is almost to the egg laying age, so I can't attest to it causing late egg production, but I also started them on it younger than the study did with their flock. I have to say all the benefits outweigh the downsides to me. I've found a lot on the internet just googling fermented feed for chickens.

(For some reason it keeps putting the link to one of the articles at the top of this post!)

Thanks Dragonfly, I have been wanting a good proof by the government to give to folks that are naysayers. It's been proven over and over that it's the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[LindaB220]

@ pdirt
But if a animal (example chickens, goats, sheep cattle) already ferments it feed why ferment it for them? It makes no scene and that is why I need to see studies that has a feed to liquid ratio and a fermentation time along with results of the study posted. I am interested in seeing the studies and would like to read them.

Chris you need to be the one to research and look for these things. They are out there. Google is a wonderful tool.

 

[LindaB220]

I live in Arkansas the second largest commersel broiler growing state in usa as far as I know. You can bet if it is cost affective and safe the big boys would have been doing it for years. they study every thing , to make more money faster , they produce billons of lbs of chicken a year. Where do you get your information?

Actually they are looking into it. The cost of salaries to ferment and destribute it is not lost effective with their set up. But overseas they are looking into fermenting the feed and then drying it for the big houses. Here's a site that I'm subscribed to that tells of hiring someone to do just that for them.

Diamond V
Tiffany Kwan, MS has joined as a Research Associate in the company's Research & Innovation Group, supporting the company's trusted expertise in animal nutrition and health, world-class research, and growing innovation program.
Kwan brings to Diamond V a background of microbiology, molecular biology, and engineering. Her research experience includes intestinal microbial ecology, anaerobic organisms, microbial fermentation, mathematical modeling, and media formulation. At Diamond V, her interests focus on microbial interactions, fermentation technologies, microbial metabolism, and pathogen mitigation.
Before joining Diamond V, Ms. Kwan was a research professional managing the labs of Drs. Margie Lee and John Maurer in the Poultry Diagnostic and Research Center at The University of Georgia. She also worked as a biotechnologist intern at Microbial Developments in the UK.
by World Poultry Aug 25, 2014

http://www.worldpoultry.net/Home/Ge...-new-poultry-specialist-to-its-team-1583451W/

 

[LindaB220]

Wow way off topic, lengthy and some misinformation. The original question was about mold in the fermentation.
With any type of fermentation process you do not want a sealed lid. Fermentation is a chemical process, elements are being rearranged creating the sought after product and a byproduct.

Bahahahahaha You are so correct. Cracked lid is best. Any other questions about fermented feed may be answered in the quick fact sheet put out by Tikktoc. She took the best ways to do it and compiled it into an easy to read post without having to read all the threads on BYC. It's my favorite because it's the easiest and less time consuming.

http://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

 

[Chris09]

Chris you need to be the one to research and look for these things. They are out there. Google is a wonderful tool.

I have, and yet found a good study that has a positive out come at the end.
The studies I have found show that the condition of the fowl and some production is lost when feeding a fermented feed.

Also most of the weight that a bird gains wile on a fermented feed is just water weight any animal when feed a high moisture feed will gain water weight, its seen some in sheep and cattle show.

Yes Google is a wonderful tool but anybody can post a web-page or have a website, in short there are only a hand full of sites that are worth reading when it come to poultry nutrition.

 

[DaveOmak]

Thanks Dragonfly, I have been wanting a good proof by the government to give to folks that are naysayers. It's been proven over and over that it's the best thing since sliced bread.

You must have read only the words you were interested in reading ..... I found nothing positive about that article, when it comes to taking care of producing, egg laying chickens.... I call that, "Selective Interpretation" .....

To me, feeding chickens fermented feed would be like me changing my diet to Enfamil or Ensure....

Egg production was delayed, and reduced output was noted... Plumage was sacrificed.... And it also suggested to "adapt" or "train" the birds, to this type of feed, at an early age... ..... It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary.....

 

[Dragonfly216]

[QUOTELindaB220" url="/t/910962/why-is-fermented-feed-getting-moldy/40#post_14095559"]
 


Thanks Dragonfly,  I have been wanting a good proof by the government to give to folks that are naysayers.  It's been proven over and over that it's the best thing since sliced bread.    e

You must have read only the words you were interested in reading  .....    I found nothing positive about that article, when it comes to taking care of producing, egg laying chickens....    I call that, "Selective Interpretation" .....

To me, feeding chickens  fermented feed would be like me changing my diet to Enfamil or Ensure....  

Egg production was delayed, and reduced output was noted...  Plumage was sacrificed....   And it also suggested to "adapt" or "train" the birds, to this type of feed, at an early age...  ..... It was concluded that fermented wet feed offers potential benefits for health and nutrition, but may become suitable for layers only after the practical problems related to this feeding form have been overcome. However, an early adaptation of the birds during the rearing period seems to be necessary.....
[/quote]

I would call it selective reading as well if you couldn't find anything good in that study, " Throughout the experimental period, the feed DM intake of hens fed with fermented feed was lower than that of hens receiving the dry mash (110 vs. 125 g). From week 26 to 37, fermented feed improved the feed conversion as compared with the dry mash (g feed DM/g egg mass, 2.28 vs. 2.53). 6. The use of fermented feed increased egg weight in the period from 34 to 37 weeks (61.4 vs. 60.0) and increased shell weight (g/100 g egg weight, 10.2 vs. 9.9) and shell stiffness (N/mm, 161 vs. 150) of eggs collected at 37 weeks. 7. The feeding of fermented feed increased intestinal health by acidification of the upper digestive tract, forming a natural barrier towards infection with acid sensitive pathogens, e.g. E. coli, Salmonella and Campylobacter."

So they're eating less food (good on the pocketbook), the quality of the egg shell is better (no explanation needed), and they have less chance of getting sick or giving us salmonella? That sounds pretty good to me. Linda, you could chime in with your experiences, and I would LOVE to hear others' as well, but my chickens have loved the feed. Haven't lost interest in it and started fighting, which is why the article said there was plumage quality loss. My chickens still love it, I didn't have to train them to love it x and they're all beautiful, no plumage quality loss. My chickens started laying two days after their 24th week which is pretty right on schedule.....no egg production delays.....in fact...is there anyone on here with bad things to say about it.....besides people who haven't tried it? Since my chickens can actually absorb more nutrients that way, plus they love it, plus they're quite healthy....I'm sticking to our fermented feed!

And Linda, glad I could help!

 

[Chris09]

Quote: So they're eating less food (good on the pocketbook), the quality of the egg shell is better (no explanation needed), and they have less chance of getting sick or giving us salmonella? That sounds pretty good to me.

Quote: That may sound like a good thing but it could in fact be a bad thing.
Chicken eat to fill a caloric need, if the calories are in fact being increased by fermenting the feed you would also have to increase ALL other nutrients in order to be feeding a complete feed.
Remember some Vitamin, Mineral, and Proteins breakdown in water and become less useful to the animal, and the loner these nutrients are setting in water the more they breakdown.