Why Organic?

[kstaven]

Lazy J I have served on more than one government stakeholder committee and spent 14 years working with municipalities, provinces and the feds on regulations. SO yah ... I do have a bit of experience and inside knowledge of the politics and slight of hand here.

Seedcorn The farmers and ranchers up here that are doing well are those who have modified there practices over the past 5 years. Have you ever seriously looked at bio dynamic methods? Lots of that going on here and one H@@@ of a lot less work and overhead. We operate off the same principle on a small scale and I can tell you we profit more than your figures would indicate. Part of that is going to be geographic, but not all.

 

[Agilityscots]

I'm a little late getting in on all of this, but my husband and I eat only organic. We made the complete transition about six months ago after eating about 25-50% organic for the better part of a year. The book that finally did it was The Food Revolution by John Robbins, of Baskin-Robbins fame.

I can't feed organic to my chickens because I've had trouble finding a supplier of organic feed locally. I continue to search for a local source of organic chicken feed.

Greginshasta, thanks for sharing the book title, The Omnivore's Dilemma. I started it tonight after reading your post and it's fantastic! I'm really enjoying it.

I want to walk lightly on the earth, and after everything I've learned about food production and our food system in general, organic is the way to go at my house. I'm willing to pay more because I feel that my health is worth it, and the environment is worth it. No one can convince me that dumping millions of tons of fertilizers, pesticides and herbicides on living soil will do anything good for humanity. No one can convince me that genetically modified organisms will end world hunger (we already produce more than enough food to feed the world...which points the finger at economics), and no one can convince me that splicing genes from fish into vegetables to prevent freezing, or creating canola that can accept unlimited applications of Roundup, is safe. It's time we got back to common sense. Just because the government approves it and subsidizes it doesn't mean it's safe.

Amy

 

[greginshasta]

Quote:
Well, actually it was Stacy who posted that title, so the credit should go to her. But this thread has been awesome and I hope it continues to be read and attract input. And to touch others...

 

[Agilityscots]

Quote:
Well, actually it was Stacy who posted that title, so the credit should go to her. But this thread has been awesome and I hope it continues to be read and attract input. And to touch others...

Oops. Sorry, SeaChick! I think I was reading through all the posts and yours and Stacey's sort of blended into one.

Amy

 

[seedcorn]

kstaven:

I have NO problem w/organic theory or practice. I have major problems with:
1) People that want organic and unwilling to pay for it.
2) People that claim "organic" and it isn't. I will argue that very little "organic" labeled grain (and by inference all products produced with it) are NOT organic. Like most "big business" organic growers/seller of products modify the rules to suit their own financial interests.

My garden is non-chemical but I use commercial fertilizer so therefore would not qualify. Does that mean my produce is less healthy, I think not. I sell none, just eat it and share with family, neighbors, and friends.

Think my numbers are wrong. Pork in the midwest is less than $.40/lb. With $4 corn, please explain how anyone can make a profit. Please.

In Canada, your hogs are government subsidized.

 

[seedcorn]

Rosalind just saw your post.

1) Here in Indiana, cash rent is $100-$200/acre cash rent. You mentioned allowing ground to sit a year w/a ground cover. How would you do that if you farmed 500Acres? How do you make cash rent, pay for ground cover and not recover the costs?
2) You may have family that are amish like my neighbors. I and most of my customers/family do not want to live that way. They want electricity, cars, health insurance, etc.
3) Yes, we have 5" of top soil and below that is clay, rock, gravel, you name it.

W/out going into names, some of the things described to me "qualify" as a farm but are more small business to tourism like we have in Shipshewana. If you have the niche, you will make money but if you could drive down the road and everyone was doing it, do you think the profit would be taken out? Not if people will pay $5/lb. for pork, but here it is $.40/lb. Give us the $5 market, and we are there.

 

[seedcorn]

AScott I'm willing to pay more

Here is the rub, HOW much more? 3X, 4X? When we farmed the way some would have us do with older genetics and no traits, fertilizers, chemicals average yields would be 80bu/acre instead of 160 bu average we had this year. Corn is $4/lb now, half the yield corn would be $8/bu. Plus ALL inputs, cash rent, seed, etc would be much higher so it would be a ratching effect. Farmer would handle more money but not have any more left.

FYI, the omega3 gene that is called the "fish gene" is actually taken from algae plant and NOT fish. RR products do not survive massive amounts of glyphosate and are regulated how much and when you can use it. It is the safest chemical we have w/NO RESIDUAL. I don't trust the manufacturer but it is the best thing in ag in a LONG time.

 

[TxChiknRanchers]

2) People that claim "organic" and it isn't. I will argue that very little "organic" labeled grain (and by inference all products produced with it) are NOT organic. Like most "big business" organic growers/seller of products modify the rules to suit their own financial interests.

This is my biggest problem with " organic" stuff.

"organic in name only"

Yes I'm a cynic, but I am trying to make a full recovery!

Randy​

 

[Queen of the Lilliputians]

Personally, I would love to go organic. We simply cannot afford to.

So I do the next best thing. I grow a chemical free garden every year. I do not use pesticides at all. We freeze our veggies for off-season. I choose to buy very few food products with ingredients I don't recognize. I try to stay away from anything that implies it has been radiated (irradiated.. sorry.. can't imagine that's better). We're talking about a cow for next year. We choose not to use pesticides on our lawn or flowers. I no longer use teflon.

Perhaps these things seem unrelated.. but as far as I'm concerned anything that goes into our bodies IS related. At some point gov't study will catch up with reality re: chemical residue and it's relationship to cancer (IMHO). Until that day comes, I try to make healthy choices. I research what is best for my land. I read and do my best to stay informed. Does this mean we are organic? Not by a long shot. But we are getting there.

At some point my pets will no longer be fed bags of 'by-products', and my chickens will find themselves neck deep in feeders full of home-mixed food. Meanwhile, their poop fertilizes my garden. Does that mean my garden is not organic? Possibly. But I agree with SeaChick. Every little bit I can do is a bit better than it was before. Whether one chooses (for financial reasons or otherwise) to go organic, at least we are MAKING a decision, thinking about it, analyzing it. Much better, I say, than blindly accepting anything, anyone, or the current research (prone to change on a daily basis).

I appreciate the information on here. Thanks to everyone who made clear concise statements for or against. It has been eye opening in some ways, irritating in others

You have all given me food for thought.

Btw, I also know quite a number of farmers in this great state. Sadly many are forced to hold jobs outside of their farms. But thankfully we are in a beautiful state, with beautiful soil and low cost per acre. I do not personally know anyone who 'rents' their land... although maybe I misunderstood that statement? Anyone here who farms that I know owns what they have (or has a mortgage for it).

Meghan

 

[kstaven]

I don't get any subsidy for any animals seedcorn. As I stated in an earlier post. I KNOW the suppliers of my feed grains and how they operate and know the feed mill well also.

Sooner or later people will figure out that corn is not the end all be all of feeding animals. Nor the best return per acre for farming. Continual cropping of corn depletes soil, so the need for more fertilizer annually to support a crop. That is a cycle that cannot continue indefinately. By the sounds of what you are saying maybe it is time to consider growing hay. Better returns per acre right now and likely short falls again next season. Would do the soil a world of good also.