Will great ventilation alone prevent frostbite on large comb & wattle breed in New England?

[Sunshine_Amy]

After reading numerous times that it's "not the cold, but the combination of moisture and cold" that results in frostbite, I went ahead and got an Ancona in my second chick order for my very well ventilated coop plan. My set up will have a sealed lower section and everything above about three feet on the two ends will be vented (like 2 enormous gable vents). And now something I read has me questioning if I made a mistake with such a large comb and wattle breed. I'm hoping to avoid needing a sweeter heater, so I've got to ask: has anyone had success with a very well-ventilated, unheated coop and a large comb/wattle breed in winter temps down to zero F? If success or not, please describe your set-up (Woods––which I think may hold a bit more moisture at times? ETA: Never mind apparently not!––top-venting, etc). THANKS.

 

[Ted Brown]

My experience is in a climate much colder that 0F; like -22F and below.

At these temperatures I have had frost bite on the combs with large comb/wattle chickens. The circumstance was unusual - a home made heated water dispenser that leaked; I noted frost on walls.

I am pretty certain in stating that a Woods does NOT hold more moisture under normal operating conditions.

 

[Folly's place]

We avoid roosters especially who have huge 'warm climate' combs and wattles, because in really cold weather, frostbite will happen. It would be worse in a very damp coop, or with wide water dishes that he could dunk his wattles in while drinking.
At least it's likely that he will loose the tips on his comb, that's common.
Heaters bring a whole different set of issues, and it's best to avoid them.
Mary

 

[mowin]

My set up will have a sealed lower section and everything above about three feet on the two ends will be vented (like 2 enormous gable vents). THANKS.

If everything 3' and up will be open, your roosts would have to be around 1.5' high(or lower) to keep drafts off the birds while on roost. To keep air flowing, I have two small openings near the coop floor that I can open or close depending on wind direction.

 

[Sunshine_Amy]

My experience is in a climate much colder that 0F; like -22F and below.

At these temperatures I have had frost bite on the combs with large comb/wattle chickens. The circumstance was unusual - a home made heated water dispenser that leaked; I noted frost on walls.

I am pretty certain in stating that a Woods does NOT hold more moisture under normal operating conditions.

Thank you, Ted, this sounds very good! If I understand you correctly, in normal circumstances, without leaking water, your large comb/wattle chicken has done fine in your (very well ventilated by design) Woods coop up to -22F?

Heaters bring a whole different set of issues, and it's best to avoid them.
Mary

Absolutely. I would be looking just at the kind that hover directly above their heads to create a gentle comb-warming zone, maybe I'm naming a different style by accident. I certainly would not attempt to raise the temp in the whole coop, which I understand to be a bad idea on many levels, in addition to dangerous, as well as impossible with the ventilation I'm employing.

 

[saysfaa]

... so I've got to ask: has anyone had success with a very well-ventilated, unheated coop and a large comb/wattle breed in winter temps down to zero F? If success or not, please describe your set-up (Woods––which I think may hold a bit more moisture at times?––top-venting, etc). THANKS.

My Brown Leghorn after a winter with temps down to negative single digits F. Although it didn't stay there long last winter. Lowest sustained-for-several-days-at-a-time temps were around 10F.

Her sister has a comb as large and no damage to her comb or wattles either. The three australorps with smaller combs don't have damage either, of course. I can't have a rooster.

My coop. It is not a classic Woods' as known on this website (it does not have the half monitor roof and does have eave and ridge vents open in the summer); it is Woods' inspired - has proportions based on Woods' plan and the open side.

Summer ventilation is the 5' open side (technically, there is a door but it hasn't been closed in over a year except to paint it.) And two 2x3 windows, eave vents, and ridge vent all of which are open all the time. Two 3' wide doors opposite the windows are open sometimes.

Last winter, I put the two windows in and block the eave openings with pool noodles. I meant to block the ridge vent but didn't get to it before it got cold and then they were doing ok so I left it. I do plan to close that next winter.

I had no frost on the walls or other such signs. It felt dry, still, and comfortable inside all the time. Snow falling off my boots or the little that sifted in through the door evaporated quickly even in the low single digits. When it was warm enough for my hygrometer/thermometer to work, it was warmer and drier inside the coop than it was outside. This was so even though they had an open bucket of water all the time. Well, all the time during the days, it usually froze across by morning even though it started the night warm.

The coop is the back half of the shed. The garden supplies in the front half don't need an open side, lol.

The one picture shows a little snow sifted in sometimes - that was about as much as it ever had, even with a stiff wind from any direction. The vast majority of the time it didn't have any snow inside.

Floor plan shown is to scale. One square = one foot. The roof overhang is inaccurate by a little. I have a flock of five.

 

[Folly's place]

Our hens very rarely have problems, and that includes some with single combs. Roosters, however with big combs and wattles do have problems. And roosters roost where they need to be, and probably it won't be related to having a warm zone somewhere. 0F happens here, and once in a while -20F, although that's uncommon, and generally only -F at night. Our main coop section has an insulated roof, and sometimes the upper levels are slightly warmer than ambient.
Mary

 

[Sunshine_Amy]

If everything 3' and up will be open, your roosts would have to be around 1.5' high(or lower) to keep drafts off the birds while on roost.

Thank you, that's the plan if I fill to capacity, and with my birds at their current number I may keep the solid wall higher on one side to allow a higher roost along that wall. I appreciate the specific number of 1.5' spacing between roost and air movement, I was taking a best guess, and it was similar.

My Brown Leghorn after a winter with temps down to negative single digits F. Although it didn't stay there long last winter. Lowest sustained-for-several-days-at-a-time temps were around 10F.

Her sister has a comb as large and no damage to her comb or wattles either. The three australorps with smaller combs don't have damage either, of course. I can't have a rooster.

My coop. It is not a classic Woods' as known on this website (it does not have the half monitor roof and does have eave and ridge vents open in the summer); it is Woods' inspired - has proportions based on Woods' plan and the open side.

Summer ventilation is the 5' open side (technically, there is a door but it hasn't been closed in over a year except to paint it.) And two 2x3 windows, eave vents, and ridge vent all of which are open all the time. Two 3' wide doors opposite the windows are open sometimes.

Last winter, I put the two windows in and block the eave openings with pool noodles. I meant to block the ridge vent but didn't get to it before it got cold and then they were doing ok so I left it. I do plan to close that next winter.

I had no frost on the walls or other such signs. It felt dry, still, and comfortable inside all the time. Snow falling off my boots or the little that sifted in through the door evaporated quickly even in the low single digits. When it was warm enough for my hygrometer/thermometer to work, it was warmer and drier inside the coop than it was outside. This was so even though they had an open bucket of water all the time. Well, all the time during the days, it usually froze across by morning even though it started the night warm.

The coop is the back half of the shed. The garden supplies in the front half don't need an open side, lol.

The one picture shows a little snow sifted in sometimes - that was about as much as it ever had, even with a stiff wind from any direction. The vast majority of the time it didn't have any snow inside.

@saysfaa , wow, thank you so much for the pictures and info about your birds and coop. It's great to hear that you're having such success with an alternative. Cool that you took a structure with Tolman's original orientation, and sliced it into his and Woods' preferred orientation (though not entirely sliced, since the wall adjacent to the tools is open to air movement). I'm glad to hear it's working for you so well, and that your birds are so happy!

This is very encouraging. Thank you all!

 

[saysfaa]

About the topic question, though... I don't think ventilation alone will prevent frostbite. Having a place out of the wind or drafts is important too.

Also, I was VERY careful to do all I could to make sure they were well hydrated and well fed all the time - good blood flow through their combs helps avoid frost bite as does digestion. They got used to hopping down off their roost for a fill up and drink in a flashlight beam if I wasn't sure they were not low on food or water late in the day or if I was leaving before dawn for the day. Especially during the longest nights and the coldest stretch of winter.

 

[Penpal]

I won't have large comb chickens anymore. One year one of my RIR got frostbite on her comb, most of the comb, and another couple of chickens had small pieces of frostbite on the comb. It was not due to cold and moisture as it was too cold for moisture, the air was dry, even in the coop. The problem may have been due to age, they were six years old. Circulation slows down a bit as we enter old age. I now have Brahma and Orpington which have very small combs.

If you are at all familiar with dog houses, you know that the dog house should appear to be a bit small for the dog. This is so his body can warm up the air in the doghouse. It needs to be big enough for him to curl up in, lay down the way he likes, but not have extra room. The coop should be the same. If it is too big the warmth of the chickens will not warm it up. In this case you might need something to heat it up a bit.