Wolf kills mule

[kathyinmo]

Well, I, for one, am certainly happy that dinosaurs are extinct.

 

[bayvistafarm]

This thread sure is interesting. But, one fact remains.. and that is a predator is a predator. Whether human, or animal. Some humans and animals deviate away from the norm. Some kill for the thrill... most for the instinct to survive. Some roosters are gay.. so are some humans. What is, is. Whose to say why things do the things they do. Humans are ruled by their emotions. The mule had a name, and a personality. That makes us go awwww. My kitty kitty kitty kills songbirds outside of my house. Shes certainly not hungry. The wolves are there. Regardless of how they became, they are. They will kill, and they may or may not eat. We have no control over that. We can try and shoot them, scare them or fence them out. Once they do know of an easy food source, they will keep trying, and if they don't adapt to the ways of the humans trying to kill, control, or exterminate them, they will become extinct. For the record.. I did put a collar and a bell on my cat, to warn the birds.. but she found a way to kill them without a sound. We have a huge population of white tailed deer, who easily eat 5 or more acres of corn every year, before we harvest it. I am not about to go and blow away 40 head of deer, which multiply in numbers, because of the huge conservation lands available to them all around me. So, we plant more corn, and pay more crop insurance. People will deal with what life throws at them the best they can. Some trample others if they think its in their best interests. Hunters as in people, don't stop to research that the deer in their sights is a grandma.. or the 9th generation of their family. The easiest and best/closest one in their opinion is the one to take. Wolves don't care if your horse/mule or cow is special, has a name, is a newborn, or old. I love all of these opinions btw... and it does make for interesting reading. Like someone on here said.. if we all thought the same thing this topic wouldn't have been near as entertaining, and I would have had my chores done earlier this morning!

 

[chickened]

Well if trends are any value and we follow suit we should get the luxury of seeing the ultimate climax to cohabitating with wolves and experience a human attack and possible death afterall it is natural. I know it will not be me or my family as we are usually armed but it will happen it is just a matter of when. Any hunter that has help pay to bring wildlife back through the various ways set up by our officials through conservation funds should be concerned with the idea of feeding an uncontrolled amount of big game to a burgeoning wolf population. Oregon said 3 breeding pairs for eastern oregon was their goal, they say there is over 100 in the state, any reason why we do not trust them? I cannot speak for other states per say but it is a big problem here with those living in the area of wolves and would be for those that eventually will.

What is being done by some that are frustrated with no results are taking matters into their own hands and using old time remedies like a treble hook, cable and meat snares, SSS and other methods that are cruel. For now these are their only resource so while not agreeing with these methods I do not fault them either. I have seen this approach in the on-leash parks in Portland where someone puts out poison meat in on-leash parks to get the officials to enforce the laws. A parvo infected dog was killed by a pack near Yellowstone and it wiped out a whole pack and now parvo is there for a long time in the soil.

Good management is the key here as with any animal and yes killing them is one of the tools.

 

[TheWaddler]

We are fencing them out unfortunately the government thinks fences work, look up the definition of a fence that the government uses in the wolf plan, I have, you can neither fence wolves in or out that is the point, when an animal is listed as an endangered species it gets a status that one can do "nothing" meaning no-thing nadda no can touchy zippo off limits, you get my drift? you can not do anything to a wolf without a permit or permission it is a violation of the laws of the ESA that is the problem. Sure you can build an enclosure that is wolf proof given enough funds, but who can afford that? Your solutions are the same ones the government gives... meaningless. If jumping to the moon would keep the wolves off my property by some strange means would that be a valid way to deal with them? seeing as it would be impossible or impractical either way? There is no reality in your solutions, what you are saying is oh yah it can be done you are just not making a big enough fence cuz money is no object to you you do not need to be fiscally responsible just hawk the farm and build the fence and magically your business will turn a profit. Most would sell the farm.

If you or I created a problem where the only reasonable solution was to accept what we did and tell you you like it or else it would be called extortion or a monopoly and it is illegal. The government is not a king we are subjects under we have rights and those rights are suspended by the ESA.

There is a reason for this, because farmers/ranchers will show zero discretion when killing wolves. They allowed you to kill them at your discretion before and you see where that got us, no wolves at all. I grew up in an area with alot of ranchers, they don't just kill wolves on their land. They kill ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE WOLF/COYOTE THAT THEY SEE NO MATTER WHO'S LAND IT IS ON. Beautiful thing about guns, they shoot over fences. Not one single rancher will ever hesitate to kill a wolf no matter what it is doing and whose land it is on.....you see wolf, wolf dies and that is exactly how it goes. This is the reality of the situation, you will kill them out of existence and you think it is your right to do so, like all men.....kill what gets in our way. Well you can't have it like that because there are decent people who will stand up and say no you don't. So we have to nail you guys to the fence for doing whatever you want with zero consideration for anything other than themselves, the wolves are more important than your ranch, than anyone's ranch. We have a choice where we live, they don't.....we will kill them if they stray to far from protected lands. No one will kill you for straying over your fence line will they. No one is saying you have to sell you land and move away but you can't move out there and expect all the animals to move away for you either. There are millions of acres of good cattle land in this country, wolves have a very limited range considering how they used to roam.

Having 9000 acres does not remove responsibility from you, having rough terrain doesn't either. I used to hunt on a 10,000 acre cattle ranch and you know what his stance was on predators/poachers......You shouldn't be in the cattle business if you can't afford to lose a few head to starving people/animals. It's one of the risk of the industry and to try and kill everything that gets close to your livestock is absurd.

People keep harping on the fact these wolves aren't native. Yes there is a reason for that as well and we all know what it is....RANCHERS. Because of zero discretion about borders, shooting wolves whenever you see them (and don't act like this isn't what will happen because it is what happened and got us to this current situation) and now all the native wolves are gone. So we lose a precious part of our ecosystem so a few families can live out in the wilds and kill everything that encroaches on their land.....the wilds they encroached upon first. So they move out, buy land to big for them to control and now want to control it all with a gun. Well I say thank god for the treehuggers for saving us from ourselves and our wanton destruction of everything in our path. Things deserve to live, even if they would kill humans if we get to close to them.

 

[justuschickens59]

There is a reason for this, because farmers/ranchers will show zero discretion when killing wolves. They allowed you to kill them at your discretion before and you see where that got us, no wolves at all. I grew up in an area with alot of ranchers, they don't just kill wolves on their land. They kill ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE WOLF/COYOTE THAT THEY SEE NO MATTER WHO'S LAND IT IS ON. Beautiful thing about guns, they shoot over fences. Not one single rancher will ever hesitate to kill a wolf no matter what it is doing and whose land it is on.....you see wolf, wolf dies and that is exactly how it goes. This is the reality of the situation, you will kill them out of existence and you think it is your right to do so, like all men.....kill what gets in our way. Well you can't have it like that because there are decent people who will stand up and say no you don't. So we have to nail you guys to the fence for doing whatever you want with zero consideration for anything other than themselves, the wolves are more important than your ranch, than anyone's ranch. We have a choice where we live, they don't.....we will kill them if they stray to far from protected lands. No one will kill you for straying over your fence line will they. No one is saying you have to sell you land and move away but you can't move out there and expect all the animals to move away for you either. There are millions of acres of good cattle land in this country, wolves have a very limited range considering how they used to roam.

Having 9000 acres does not remove responsibility from you, having rough terrain doesn't either. I used to hunt on a 10,000 acre cattle ranch and you know what his stance was on predators/poachers......You shouldn't be in the cattle business if you can't afford to lose a few head to starving people/animals. It's one of the risk of the industry and to try and kill everything that gets close to your livestock is absurd.

People keep harping on the fact these wolves aren't native. Yes there is a reason for that as well and we all know what it is....RANCHERS. Because of zero discretion about borders, shooting wolves whenever you see them (and don't act like this isn't what will happen because it is what happened and got us to this current situation) and now all the native wolves are gone. So we lose a precious part of our ecosystem so a few families can live out in the wilds and kill everything that encroaches on their land.....the wilds they encroached upon first. So they move out, buy land to big for them to control and now want to control it all with a gun. Well I say thank god for the treehuggers for saving us from ourselves and our wanton destruction of everything in our path. Things deserve to live, even if they would kill humans if we get to close to them.

X100 !!!

 

[Matthew3590]

There is a reason for this, because farmers/ranchers will show zero discretion when killing wolves. They allowed you to kill them at your discretion before and you see where that got us, no wolves at all. I grew up in an area with alot of ranchers, they don't just kill wolves on their land. They kill ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE WOLF/COYOTE THAT THEY SEE NO MATTER WHO'S LAND IT IS ON. Beautiful thing about guns, they shoot over fences. Not one single rancher will ever hesitate to kill a wolf no matter what it is doing and whose land it is on.....you see wolf, wolf dies and that is exactly how it goes. This is the reality of the situation, you will kill them out of existence and you think it is your right to do so, like all men.....kill what gets in our way. Well you can't have it like that because there are decent people who will stand up and say no you don't. So we have to nail you guys to the fence for doing whatever you want with zero consideration for anything other than themselves, the wolves are more important than your ranch, than anyone's ranch. We have a choice where we live, they don't.....we will kill them if they stray to far from protected lands. No one will kill you for straying over your fence line will they. No one is saying you have to sell you land and move away but you can't move out there and expect all the animals to move away for you either. There are millions of acres of good cattle land in this country, wolves have a very limited range considering how they used to roam.

Having 9000 acres does not remove responsibility from you, having rough terrain doesn't either. I used to hunt on a 10,000 acre cattle ranch and you know what his stance was on predators/poachers......You shouldn't be in the cattle business if you can't afford to lose a few head to starving people/animals. It's one of the risk of the industry and to try and kill everything that gets close to your livestock is absurd.

People keep harping on the fact these wolves aren't native. Yes there is a reason for that as well and we all know what it is....RANCHERS. Because of zero discretion about borders, shooting wolves whenever you see them (and don't act like this isn't what will happen because it is what happened and got us to this current situation) and now all the native wolves are gone. So we lose a precious part of our ecosystem so a few families can live out in the wilds and kill everything that encroaches on their land.....the wilds they encroached upon first. So they move out, buy land to big for them to control and now want to control it all with a gun. Well I say thank god for the treehuggers for saving us from ourselves and our wanton destruction of everything in our path. Things deserve to live, even if they would kill humans if we get to close to them.

So every rancher out there has no respect for property laws or whose land the wolf is on when shot? I will shoot at a wolf all day on my land if it seems like it is eyeing my animals. But I don't shoot over my neighbors fence on his property.

 

[Candace69]

Yeah, I thought the same thing, generalities. Judging and lumping everyone all together.
Hey, one thought, if our forefathers did not "encroach" then "civilization" wouldn't be here.
If not for the farmers and ranchers you wouldn't have food on your table.
Farmers have to sometimes kill deer that are in excess and killing crops.
Ranchers have to kill wolves, coyotes, cougar.
Yes, we live as much as possible in harmony, but I will never agree that a wolf has more rights than a man.
I know people will get irritated, but we were put here, if you read the bible, to be fruitful and subdue the earth. Has there been mistakes> Yes, but it is not fair to lump everyone in one group. We are not supposed to rape and destroy the earth, but make it where we can live and prosper, yes, that is a right we should have; not just blindly say "oh mr wolf, you were here first, kill my stock, kill my cattle, kill my family, eat me, I'm not supposed to be here"
If you think about it, by the thought that we moved into THEIR territory, then we need to leave the whole continent of America. I mean, we didn't used to be here. So I guess we need to give it all back? Hey we used to not be ANYWHERE on this earth, we were put in one place, so I guess we should have just stayed in that one place?
God made everything, and gave us dominion, we need to care for it yes, and we each answer for our choices, but we also are expected to protect that which is under our care; as we work to live in harmony. If I see something harming or threatening to harm, something that is under my care, feathered, hooved, two or four legged, I will protect it with any and all means i have in my hands.

 

[Duramaxgirl]

Ah yes the sound of common sense.... Wish more people had it. Well said Candace.

 

[Farmerboy16]

Yeah, I thought the same thing, generalities. Judging and lumping everyone all together.
Hey, one thought, if our forefathers did not "encroach" then "civilization" wouldn't be here.
If not for the farmers and ranchers you wouldn't have food on your table.
Farmers have to sometimes kill deer that are in excess and killing crops.
Ranchers have to kill wolves, coyotes, cougar.
Yes, we live as much as possible in harmony, but I will never agree that a wolf has more rights than a man.
I know people will get irritated, but we were put here, if you read the bible, to be fruitful and subdue the earth. Has there been mistakes> Yes, but it is not fair to lump everyone in one group. We are not supposed to rape and destroy the earth, but make it where we can live and prosper, yes, that is a right we should have; not just blindly say "oh mr wolf, you were here first, kill my stock, kill my cattle, kill my family, eat me, I'm not supposed to be here"
If you think about it, by the thought that we moved into THEIR territory, then we need to leave the whole continent of America. I mean, we didn't used to be here. So I guess we need to give it all back? Hey we used to not be ANYWHERE on this earth, we were put in one place, so I guess we should have just stayed in that one place?
God made everything, and gave us dominion, we need to care for it yes, and we each answer for our choices, but we also are expected to protect that which is under our care; as we work to live in harmony. If I see something harming or threatening to harm, something that is under my care, feathered, hooved, two or four legged, I will protect it with any and all means i have in my hands.

Very well said Candace!!

 

[RHRanch]

Yeah, I thought the same thing, generalities. Judging and lumping everyone all together.
Hey, one thought, if our forefathers did not "encroach" then "civilization" wouldn't be here.
If not for the farmers and ranchers you wouldn't have food on your table.
Farmers have to sometimes kill deer that are in excess and killing crops.
Ranchers have to kill wolves, coyotes, cougar.
Yes, we live as much as possible in harmony, but I will never agree that a wolf has more rights than a man.
I know people will get irritated, but we were put here, if you read the bible, to be fruitful and subdue the earth. Has there been mistakes> Yes, but it is not fair to lump everyone in one group. We are not supposed to rape and destroy the earth, but make it where we can live and prosper, yes, that is a right we should have; not just blindly say "oh mr wolf, you were here first, kill my stock, kill my cattle, kill my family, eat me, I'm not supposed to be here"
If you think about it, by the thought that we moved into THEIR territory, then we need to leave the whole continent of America. I mean, we didn't used to be here. So I guess we need to give it all back? Hey we used to not be ANYWHERE on this earth, we were put in one place, so I guess we should have just stayed in that one place?
God made everything, and gave us dominion, we need to care for it yes, and we each answer for our choices, but we also are expected to protect that which is under our care; as we work to live in harmony. If I see something harming or threatening to harm, something that is under my care, feathered, hooved, two or four legged, I will protect it with any and all means i have in my hands.

Much of this argument is rooted in the concept of manifest destiny (which was a very good way to justify all kinds of mass consumption and destruction) which was actually how we aquired the very lands we are discussing - lands which previously belonged the original occupants of this country, the native americans (and the US is not the only country to have experienced the expansion driven by manifest destiny). If you are unfamiliar with what manifest destiny is, in a nutshell it suggests that man (particularly european man) has a divine right which grants him the right to occupy and use any resources he wishes. Europeans man's "Dominion" included not just animals, but all non-christians and thier lands and the lands resources. Today the concept is hanging around - its part of our subconscious. Here's an informative video, if you have time you may enjoy it: