WTH is going on here?

Discussion in 'Incubating & Hatching Eggs' started by evergreendors, Mar 29, 2018.

  1. evergreendors

    evergreendors Chirping

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    Jan 29, 2018
    I have a Farm Innovators bator, which is being returned as soon as this hatch is over cause I hate it).

    Anyhow I put in eggs 23 days ago (24 by 10pm tonight). 2 hatched early on day 21. 2 more pipped and never got out during the night of day 22. Today is day 23.5. I candled the remaining 7 last night (all were viable (movement, heart beat, etc) at lock down on day 18) and only 2 showed movement. Lots of movement.

    However, I did not see any internal pips on either of the 2 remaining ones that are moving. This is not my first merry go round as I have been hatching off and on for the better part of 20 years. This is however my second time with this type of bator and this will be the second one going back for spiking temps and unreliability.

    Long story not worth going into but to say I have done this before is fact.
    SO my questions are:

    1. why so long between first and possible last
    2. why did the other 2 pip and not hatch ( I did an eggtopsy and they were still moist, so not shrink wrapped) and looked "normal"?
    3. Why did the others die (best guessing here)?
    4. What do I do about the ones that appear to be still alive but no pipping yet?

    Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

    I have read, several times the most amazing post here about helping hatching, candling, float testing, etc and have followed the advice to a "T" but cannot find anything on the situation that I seem to be in.
     
    CapricornFarm likes this.
  2. Forced air? Mine had definite hot and cold spots even though it is forced air. Not much help for your situation, but might help to explain the staggered hatch.
     
  3. EggSighted4Life

    EggSighted4Life Free Ranging

    Did you move them around to a different location inside the incubator EVERY day to ensure even development... since even the best of incubators will have temp variances throughout?

    Age or nutrition of parent stock... or poor genetics expressed, maybe. Could even be

    I walk pull the plug and dispose of non hatchers. This late they tend to be less viable IF they did happen to hatch.

    I actually have great luck with my cheap styro bators... But the temp does require SLIGHT adjustment as the eggs start to make their own heat. And I always use extra insulating covers. It does state to set them at the WARMEST part of the day and let you temp drift down if you have wide swings in your house. Verses the electronic ones seem to do well at adjusting themselves.

    Some useful links..
    http://extension.msstate.edu/content/trouble-shooting-failures-egg-incubation

    http://ufdc.ufl.edu/UF00008570/00001

    http://anrcatalog.ucanr.edu/pdf/8127.pdf

    I can't get any of my Hubbard links to work. It's too bad because they were a great resource. :hmm

    Hope this helps.

    :fl :jumpy
     
  4. Nurtureright360

    Nurtureright360 Chirping

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    1. why so long between first and possible last
    This item is also sold in TSC store, just see customer comments and found not a few people suffered big temperature variance cause low hatch rate, use several thermometers to check will found this issue, eggs located in hot spot will tend to hatch earlier, while eggs located in cold hot will tend to hatch later, small variance won't affect hatch rate, just hatch time difference, but big temperature variance will affect much on hatch rate.
    This incubator has only 30 days warranty, pay attention to the date if want to return.

    2. why did the other 2 pip and not hatch ( I did an eggtopsy and they were still moist, so not shrink wrapped) and looked "normal"?
    I would assume those 2 eggs are located in hot spot, on the hatch day, chick body temperature is much higher than before, need cooler air to help reduce body temperature, the hot spot temperature make the chick die of "heat stroke".

    4. What do I do about the ones that appear to be still alive but no pipping yet?
    If today is day 24, chicks probably won't hatch out any more, the nutrition inside the egg can't support chick to survive to day 24, even some luckily to survive and hatched, those chicks are very very weak, difficult to survive within first week.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  5. evergreendors

    evergreendors Chirping

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    Update:
    All remaining eggs have dies. When the eggtopsy was done on those that did not hatch, once again all we fully formed, head under right wing, yolk sack gone, but not pipped or hatched. That has been a very sad experience. It is hard to beleive I had better rates when using the old styro still air bators of times past. Unfortunately I loaned to to someone and I cannot remember who. I guess I will table this adventure until I can afford/justify a more expensive brand...
     
    CapricornFarm likes this.
  6. Farmer Connie

    Farmer Connie All My Friends Have Hoofs

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    I have 2 Farm Innovators still air analog ovens. W/Great hatch rates.
    I also run dual Little Giants 9300 digital. Success as well. Still air)
    My incubator room IS NOT CLIMATE CONTROLLED..
    I have several brooders in that room and the room temperature is very close to the internal temps of the bators.
    In the distant past we had poor H-rates caused by drafts and having climate control - air condition cooling the room.
    I hand turn all 4 ovens. And when I hand turn, I re position the orientation of each egg. Center goes outwards, outwards get centered.
    I am in Florida. I run zero water until day 18.
    I also have aux humidity/temp meters. All built in meters in all hobby incubators LIE. They are merely a rough guideline to set up and get started. I rely on 2nd & 3rd opinion meters.
    Sorry about your experience with Farm Innovators, it's just that mine aren't junk, I happen to like them.
    I wish you the best with what ever brand you decide to use.
     
    EggSighted4Life likes this.
  7. aart

    aart Chicken Juggler!

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    Well that must help a lot!
     
    CapricornFarm likes this.
  8. Farmer Connie

    Farmer Connie All My Friends Have Hoofs

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    My Easter hatch is busting out right at this moment. 3 out of the shells and a bunch of un zipping.
    Only day 20. In a Farm Innovators still air analog oven.
    Aluminum tape over the air condition register vent and a seal around the entire door. And 2 signs on the door, inside and outside.. CLOSE DOOR FAST.
    It's about 89-90* in there right now. When Summer comes, it's un bearable to be in there. But my hatch rates are excellent.
     
  9. lazy gardener

    lazy gardener Crossing the Road

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    OP: did you calibrate your thermometers, and your hygrometer? What calibration method did you use? What hatching temp did you use? What was your humidity through day 18? Forced or still air?

    I have excellent hatches in home made bators. Both with thermostats (one bi-metal, and one digital) In the bimetal, I can plan on having to turn back the thermostat around day 7 and again at day 14 b/c the chicks have spikes in their metabolism at that time. They start kicking out enough extra heat that I need to compensate for it, even when using a thermostat. As other posters have said, even with a fan, there will be warmer and cooler spots in the bator. If the operator has not accommodated for that, or if the operator has not calibrated his equipment, no bator can be expected to do a good job.

    Your eggs going longer than expected, apparent good fertility, but failure to hatch indicates that the incubator was most likely running too low. Humidity may have also been an issue.
     
    Farmer Connie likes this.
  10. Redhead Rae

    Redhead Rae Chickens, chickens everywhere!

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    My first hatch was done in two cheapo incubators like this one pictured below.
    upload_2018-3-30_18-27-52.png
    I had a dozen eggs in each one. I carefully monitored the humidity, temp, etc. but this was back in December when that month long arctic blast hit us and I had a hard time keeping the temps steady and the humidity low enough for the first 18 days. These incubators complain if the humidity goes below 45% and I couldn't figure out how to reset that. So it was hard to keep the humidity between 45 and 50%. One incubator was more temperamental than the other (temperature wise) but I assumed that was because it was closer to the floor. Out of 2 dozen eggs. I only had 6 hatch. 5 from the less buggy incubator and 1 from the more temperamental one and 2 of the chicks needed to be assisted in hatching.

    Come the beginning of February, I wanted to start staggered hatches of my Cornish trio's eggs, but I found that the more "temperamental" incubator couldn't keep up the heat at room temperatures and if we jacked up the temp in the room, the other incubator would overheat. Also, since the cold snap had passed and the ambient humidity had risen, I couldn't do anything to keep the humidity below 60% and above 45% for longer than a couple hours. A couple dozen eggs never even made it to lock down and I had two batches of eggs make it to lockdown to never even pip. My policy is to never help if they aren't pipped.

    So, I decided to go crazy and spend a good deal of money on a Brinsea Ovation 28 EX. Boy, was it worth the money! I set it up and it was at temp and humidity within an hour. I only have to check to make sure the water reservoir isn't dry. I set it to 45% humidity and 37.5 C and I've never seen it more than +-3% humidity or +- .2C of those settings. I am using this incubator to start my eggs, and my more consistent cheapo incubator for hatching. It worked a treat! Out of 20 eggs set in the Brinsea, I lost 5 before lockdown, and, out of the 15 eggs that went into lockdown, 14 hatched. A good incubator is worth the money. My cheapo works great for hatching so I don't have to get my expensive incubator dirty! At the moment, I'm still kicking myself for not spending the extra $100 to get the 56 egg version.
     

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