Wyoming lifts ban on Narragansett turkeys

[HallFamilyFarm]

Wyoming lifts ban on Narragansett Turkeys! 11/22/2011 See below:

From LaDonna:

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Yippee! WY G&F will now allow Narragansett turkeys in the state!

A HUGE THANK YOU to everyone who wrote letters, e-mailed and sent me information. You were great and made a difference!

LaDonna



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Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 17:48:43 -0700
Subject: Narragansett Turkeys
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]


LaDonna,



It was a pleasure to visit with you about this issue on the phone this evening. As we discussed, the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission regulations, chapter 10, state that domestic turkeys that are "distinguished morphologically from wild turkeys" qualify as domestic turkeys and do not require a permit for possession. Narragansett turkeys that display these characteristics would not require a permit for possession.



Please let me know if you have further questions.



Brian Nesvik

Wyoming Game and Fish Department

Chief Game Warden

Chief, Wildlife Division

[email protected]

307-777-4579
E-Mail to and from me, in connection with the transaction
of public business,is subject to the Wyoming Public Records
Act, and may be disclosed to third parties.

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Wyoming bans all turkeys that are related to wild turkeys

(ETA: Note, at present only the Narragansett is banned. However, based on their policy, ALL turkeys would be banned.)

The below letter was received by the Secretary of the Exhibition Turkey Fanciers. Please read the letter then read this link at ALBC: http://www.albc-usa.org/cpl/narragansett.html

Then assist us in helping fellow breeders of poultry in Wyoming. Call the Wyoming Game and Fish Department and ask for Director Scott Talbott. Explain to him that the Narragansett Turkey has been recognized as a domesticated livestock for over 400 years. You may file a formal online complaint at http://gf.state.wy.us/wildlife/enforcement/stoppoaching/submitTip.aspx

Then call the Wyoming’s Governor Matthew Mead at 307-777-7434 and explain to his office that the Narragansett Turkey has been recognized as a domesticated livestock for over 400 years. You may email the Governor at http://governor.wy.gov/contactus/Pages/default.aspx

We must protect our rights to own livestock. Arkansas Game and Fish attempted a similar ban this year concerning ALL waterfowl. We won! Now Wyoming Game and Fish. What state is next?

The ETF appreciates your assistance.

Jim A. Hall
Secretary
Exhibition Turkey Fanciers

Note: We will place updates in post #1 and on the thread.

Here is the Grand Champion Turkey at the 2011 Crossroads of American Joint National, a Narragansett tom.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Here is a template letter. Please edit and mail to the officials listed above.

Brian R. Nesvrik
Chief, Wildlife Division
Wyoming Game and Fish Dept
5400 Bishop Blvd
Cheyenne, WY 82006

Dear Mr. Nesvrik,

It has come to my attention that you and the Wyoming Game and Fish
Department are experiencing some confusion in regards to the status of
the Narragansett turkey breed. I am in receipt of a copy of the letter
you sent to Jim Hall in which you state that "All turkeys, wild and
domestic, are taxonomically classified as Meleagris gallopavo.
Wyoming recognizes domestic turkeys as only those breeds that can be
distinguished morphologically from wild turkeys. In order to be
recognized as a domestic breed, a turkey needs to have changed in
temperament and conformation, or other attributes to an extent that
makes them unique and distinguishable from wild individuals of their
species."

I would like to address several points with you in response to this
statement. Meleagris gallopavo was one of the first animals in the
Americas to be domesticated. In 1519 Cortez found the Aztecs raising
domesticated turkeys. The Spaniards carried the turkey back to Europe
where they quickly became popular. In 1620, the Pilgrims disembarked
from the Mayflower and were surprised to find turkeys on this land
similar to the domesticated ones they brought from England. Soon they
were cross breeding both stocks of turkeys at the Plymouth Plantation.

Wyoming currently has wild Rio Grande, Meleagris gallopavo intermedia,
& Merriamm Meleagris gallopavo merriami, turkeys, along with hybrids
of these two sub-species. Neither of these turkeys are native to
Wyoming according to the research I have found but were transplanted
into Wyoming & other states. The Rio Grande and Merriam turkey
sub-species are recognized as wild turkeys where they are found. The
Narragansett turkey on the other hand is not found in the wild
anywhere in the United States and has been domesticated from it's
creation in the 1600's by the early colonists who crossed domestic
turkeys brought from Europe with native Eastern Wild Turkeys. Improved
and standardized for production qualities, the Narragansett Turkey
became the foundation of the turkey industry in New England and was
especially important in Rhode Island and Connecticut. It was also
popular in the Mid-Atlantic States and the Midwest. This breed was
recognized by the American Poultry Association in 1874.

As you know, all wolves/dogs, wild and domestic, are taxonomically
classified as Canis lupus? Some sub-species of Canis lupus are
dramatically different in appearance and temperament, while other
"domesticated" sub-species are very similar to "wild" sub-species in
either appearance and/or temperament. Does Wyoming ban any Canis
lupus sub-species due to these morphological similarities? Many birds
from the Psittacidae family are "domesticated" and are kept as pets
throughout the world. Without exception, all of these species are
identical in genetics and appearance to their wild counterparts in
their native habitat. Does Wyoming also ban Psittacidae species due
to their indentical morphological composition compared to their wild
counterparts? I could go on with many other examples but I think you
can see my point. Every breed, species or sub-species of domesticated
animals world wide is the result of selective breeding & cross
breeding of their wild forebears and subsequent descendants. If you
ban Narragansett turkeys, you will need to update your list of banned
species to include all cattle, sheep, goats, dogs, chickens, cats,
horses, and pigs; along with every fish, mammal, bird and reptile
currently being sold in pet stores throughout Wyoming as they are all
either descended from "wild" ancestors or are directly from the wild
themselves.

I personally raise Narragansett, Black Spanish, Slate, Bourbon Red,
Royal Palm & Bronze turkeys. They definitely possess a different
temperament and conformation than wild turkeys of any sub-species.
The Narragansetts for example are larger than any type of wild turkey,
they eat out of my hand and will follow me around my property while
free ranging. I would consider these to be significant differences
from any wild turkey in both size and temperament. They also look
different in appearance from the wild turkey sub-species. Just for
comparison, I also have a pen of Ringneck pheasants that I hatched
this last spring from eggs from a "pheasant farm" that has been
raising this line of birds for many generations. These birds are
considered domesticated and yet they are definitely not tame even
after many generations of captive breeding and look identical to the
wild Ringnecks, (which are also a non-native species.)

In summary, the Narragansett turkey is a domesticated turkey and has
been for 400+ years. They are not found anywhere in the wild and they
possess a different temperament & conformation from the transplanted
wild turkeys currently found in Wyoming. I urge you to join the rest
of the States in the Union in recognizing the Narragansett as a
domesticated breed along with the other Heritage Turkey breeds which
are: Black Spanish, Slate, Bourbon Red, Standard Bronze, White Midget,
Jersey Buff, White Holland, Royal Palm & Beltsville Small White along
with multiple color variations of these breeds.

Sincerely yours,


John Doe
3200 Carol Lane
New York, New York 00123
918-555-1212

cc: Matthew Mead, Governor Wyoming
Wyoming Department of Agriculture​

 

[Jake Levi]

They have their heads up their butts !!

ALL turkeys are decended from wild American turkeys, both the Eastern and the Mexican species. Spain took wild Mexican turkeys from Mexican species and the English imported wild Eastern turkeys, and their breeds descend from those ! Those breeds were subsequently brought back to N. American and again hybridized with wild American turkeys, its all the same DNA !!

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

"IF" this goes bad, is there anyone in a nearby state that can house a small flock of Narragansett for our member? I am willing, but Arkansas is a bit far from Wyoming.

 

[Peach2u]

LOL well there goes Thanksgiving. Since all turkeys can be traced back to the wild ones. What a waste of tax money and time. If there is a shortage of wild turkeys up there you can have the flock that runs across my yard and eats my bird seed. If I let my chickens out too early they will eat thier food too. Good Luck hope you get to keep your flock

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:
We have a volunteer farm in Colorado that will keep this flock if it becomes neccessary.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

URGENT NEWS!!!!!

DO NOT CALL THE WYOMING LIVESTOCK BOARD!

They are working with us to correct this issue.

 

[GrannyLou]

Are there any e-mail addresses available? These guys hide themselves so deep I can't find one in any of my usual haunts - those used by reporters - and this has made it to my Yahoo group about Antiquity Poultry.

A member posted a letter they wrote and I'm responding with my own arguments against the ban, including photos. I'd love to CC these idiots so they can see there is a HUGE difference between the two birds...

My thoughts on it, sans photos:


I found this to be interesting. I looked this up to see what all the hullabaloo was about and found this posting on the Backyard Chicken site.

On this site is a letter from the Wyoming Game & Fish Department where they say, “In order to be recognized as a domestic breed, a turkey needs to have changed in temperament and conformation, or other attributes, to an extent that makes them unique and distinguishable from wild individuals of their species.”

The turkey being targeted in this campaign is the Narragansett Turkey, listed on the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy as “threatened”. Here are photos of the birds, the wild turkey and the Narragansett, side by side (along with the links from whence they came): (Insert photos here - emphasis mine)

I believe the argument could be made they HAVE changed in both conformation AND appearance. By looking at the head, waddles and breast of the Narragansett, conformation changes are evident.

The strong argument could also be made the temperament of a Narragansett is CERTAINLY different from that of a wild turkey. I’ve walked into a yard full of domesticated turkeys and been greeted by them. I stumbled across a, uh, group of wild turkeys in West Virginia and they ran away. The Narragansett is definitely a much more docile bird.

I searched for e-mail addresses for a number of people listed on this letter but couldn’t find anything in a few minutes.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

Their official agency websites give a way to email via the website. No email address are known to us. Thanks for the help!

 

[ivan3]

From the letter (easier reading):

They should have stopped after the first sentence. Domestication, strictly speaking, does not require hybridization. However, since they brought it up: temperament is inadequate as a `tame' turkey is only a moment of imprinting, on a human, away from altering the the temperament (supplying a food source and protection from predators/penning up) and creating a `domestic' turkey (Silvestris/Merriami/etc.). Instituting a breeding `regimen' between the `tames' and one achieves the alteration in `conformation' though, in the dissertation linked to below, it is almost impossible to determine what M.G. Merriams (maintained by ancient Native American populations in the Southwest) were `domestic' and which were wild. Domestication and hybridization are not synonymous:
http://www.johnwade.ca/attachments/article/359/russianfoxfarmstudy.pdf

??Black Spanish/Bronze/Royal Palm/Bourbon,etc.??

"Conformation"? (and all that implies):

Can't run down an online copy of the 1874 American Standard of Perfection (first year of turkey inclusion, yes?). However, the above is from the 1903 edition, which is available online: http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924003039280

From: The Wild Turkey (Its History And Domestication), A.W. Schorger, University of Oklahoma Press, 1966 (pp. 43, 462)

The restocking of `Wild' Meleagris Gallopavo Silvestris in Missouri revealed the following:

From 1925 to 1943, an effort was made to halt the decline in turkey numbers. Approximately 14,000 game farm turkeys were released to supply more breeding stock. The hunting season for turkeys was closed in 1937. However, turkey numbers still decreased and the release of game farm turkeys appeared futile. Research studies were initiated in 1938 to determine why the game farm turkeys failed. These investigations were interrupted during World War II, but resumed in 1951. It was learned that game farm birds, even of the wildest stock obtainable, were not the answer- only a truly wild bird would survive.

http://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/turkey/history-wild-turkeys-missouri
Imprinting on humans and/or the maintenance and breeding of a `Wild' population by humans is sufficient to produce a domestic line (the differentiation occurring, initially, at the level of `learned' behaviors/epigenetics).

...However, the lack of statistical significance appears to support the long-held view that all turkey varieties are a single breed, because the use of 10 markers distributed on different chromosomes may represent the most unbiased estimate of the relationships to date.

From: Microsatellite Marker-Based Genetic Analysis of Relatedness Between Commercial and Heritage Turkeys (Meleagris gallopavo)
Poultry Science: 2007 Poultry Science 86:46–49 http://ps.fass.org/cgi/reprint/86/1/46

If the Narragansett is `Wild', then so to are Commercial Broad Breasted turks. It would seem the only turkeys that should enter Wyoming are frozen Butterballs, et al.

The above is from an excellent addition to Schorger's info (doctoral dissertation): Investigating Turkey (Meleagris Gallopavo) Domestication in the Southwest Through Ancient DNA Analysis, Camilla Speller, Simon Fraser University, 2009:

summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/10463/ETD4815.pdf (copy/paste into search pane).

(use Google Chrome Browser to download this file if using IE and it belches. The file is ID'ed as `dangerous' only because the PDF is Protected).

For comparison:
Meleagris Gallopavo Merriami: http://www.nwtf.org/all_about_turkeys/history_merriam_wild_turkey.html
Narragansett: http://www.porterturkeys.com/narragansett.htm

Maybe you ought to talk to someone at the UofW: http://www.uwyo.edu/vetsci/

ed:sp/clarity​