YOGURT AS PART OF TREATMENT AGAINST INTENSE COCCI INFECTIONS

[centrarchid]

I deal with intense cocci infections regularly with chicks reared free-ranged around penned adults resulting only about four chicks reared per hen per brood which is half that realized with hens reared well away from same areas. Space limitations prevent keeping all hens with chicks away from pens. To combat this I have been using Corid laced water but have difficulties getting chicks to consume enough without using it in all water containers on ground where chicks pass by. Additionally many chicks decline in health so fast that they loose interest in drinking enough water to survive long enough for treatment to work. I have tried using wetted fed laced with Corid but even then feed intake is often too low. After reading the numerous assertions that yogurt was beneficial I decided to give it a go on two broods. One part chick starter was mixed with 2 parts plain yogurt and then Corid was added at a rate similar to what would be used if mixed volume was water. The mixture was made and applied fresh twice daily. Intake of the mixture was very good resulting in crop fill even with very weak chicks. Chicks were still allowed free-choice access to water that was not laced with Corid. Mortality appears to have been cut in half and recovery time is about 3 days instead of the usual week to ten days. Results are interesting enough that procedure will be repeated in future with more control to see if it can be repeated.

 

[casportpony]

FYI, if you're one that has been using the 1/2 teaspoon of Corid Powder, you have not been using enough, I did the math and the doses are:

• 1/3 teaspoon for prevention (.006% level). This amount is equal to 1/2 teaspoon of the liquid (2.5ml)
• 3/4 teaspoon for moderate outbeaks (.012% level. This amount is equal to 1 teaspoon of the liquid (5ml)
• 1.5 teaspoons for severe treatments (.024% level). This amount is equal to 2 teaspoons of the liquid (10ml)

-Kathy

 

[War Chicken]

I don't know how much thiamine is in yogurt but Corid is a thiamine analog so ideally you want to restrict the amount of real thiamine in the diet.

Interestingly, artificial sweeteners have been suggested when putting a bitter drug in the drinking water. I just make sure they have no other sources of water.

 

[centrarchid]

In this case the efficacy of the Corid / Thiamine interaction does not appear to be a problem. The yogurt appears to be providing some benefits that do not directly conflict with that interaction.

 

[Michael Apple]

I've found that I only need to use preventative doses of Corid for coccidiosis to build immunity in young birds. Like Kathy stated, treatment dose is different than preventative dose. Those who don't use the correct dosage won't succeed in treating for this protozoan. I use Probios, and Avian Super Pack vitamins 3 days a week even with the old timers. The Probios dispersible powder is more practical for me and it contains Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum.

 

[centrarchid]

I've found that I only need to use preventative doses of Corid for coccidiosis to build immunity in young birds. Like Kathy stated, treatment dose is different than preventative dose. Those who don't use the correct dosage won't succeed in treating for this protozoan. I use Probios, and Avian Super Pack vitamins 3 days a week even with the old timers. The Probios dispersible powder is more practical for me and it contains Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus Acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei and Lactobacillus plantarum.

Dosage is very much a function of how much is ingested, not just concentration in water. From my perspective, amount of Corid per unit weight of bird is what needs to be controlled. Birds hit hard have a hard time consuming enough water, therefore medication to render effective treatment.

With old birds I do not treat. If needed they get culled very fast.

 

[Michael Apple]

Dosage is very much a function of how much is ingested, not just concentration in water. From my perspective, amount of Corid per unit weight of bird is what needs to be controlled. Birds hit hard have a hard time consuming enough water, therefore medication to render effective treatment.

With old birds I do not treat. If needed they get culled very fast.

Thus the difference in dosage from preventative to treatment with Amprolium. If birds aren't drinking, then the disease has progressed for too long or it might not even be coccidiosis.. You might consider the fact that there are cocci strains Amprolium isn't effective against. That's where Sulfadimethoxine comes in. Sulfadimethoxine also remedies cholera, enteritis, and coryza. All the bird needs is to drink treated water twice a day for significant levels of the drug to combat infection.

 

[centrarchid]

Thus the difference in dosage from preventative to treatment with Amprolium. If birds aren't drinking, then the disease has progressed for too long or it might not even be coccidiosis.. You might consider the fact that there are cocci strains Amprolium isn't effective against. That's where Sulfadimethoxine comes in. Sulfadimethoxine also remedies cholera, enteritis, and coryza. All the bird needs is to drink treated water twice a day for significant levels of the drug to combat infection.

Birds with live threatening cases tend to dehydrate. Two drinks per day are not adequate under those conditions to preserve body water content. If they can, they respond by drinking more which can take dosage to higher levels, possibly higher than desired. A constant dosage relative to mass of birds should be a priority. Having food ingested as part of a controllable fixed ration can ensure desired dosage is realized so long as all is consumed. Having a highly palatable feed so laced increased odds appropriate dosage is consumed. After dosage is realized with the laced feed, then untreated feed can be provided free-choice until another dose needed later in day. Again if laced feed is highly palatable, they will still feed up on it even though they may already have some degree of crop fill already.

If you have birds in a brooder, even though disease has potential for being more aggressive, you have a better handle on feed and water consumption which I realize with so raised birds. Situation described in first post deals with free-range birds where knowing / controlling dosage is much more difficult catching it quickly can be more difficult. There are tradeoffs with respect to rearing system used.


The variations in cocci strains and the differences that exist within and between such strains has been discussed many times in other threads and is not relevant here since flock genetics and likely cocci genetics are constant. If discussion deals with birds of genetic backgrounds or flocks in different locations then disparities in tolerance to coccisidiostat becomes important.

Next round I will take fecal samples to lab and make pics of cocci.

 

[Michael Apple]

Birds with live threatening cases tend to dehydrate. Two drinks per day are not adequate under those conditions to preserve body water content. If they can, they respond by drinking more which can take dosage to higher levels, possibly higher than desired. A constant dosage relative to mass of birds should be a priority.

If the bird has reached the point of dehydration from not drinking, then attention wasn't received fast enough. The advantage of Sulfadimethoxine is that it lasts longer in the birds system. The recommended amount of the drug administered in water is a safe enough level (Di-Methox for example). If you are having such complex problems with your birds, it could be the result of your own making. It could even be something besides Coccidiosis. I've never lost a bird to Coccidiosis and have all sorts of migratory birds and other critters in my area. Prevention is key, not waiting until problems progress. The main point I was making was that your claim of yogurt in the diet, in addition to Corid won't likely treat the problem, but Probiotics, some of which are found in yogurt, are a great preventative for intestinal diseases. If the birds are ranging and picking up the Cocci protozoan, they must be penned and treated. Then if you want them to range after successful treatment, you will need to use preventative methods. The variety of water dispersible probiotics are also more easily absorbed by the bird than those found in yogurt. That's all. Good luck.

 

[centrarchid]

If the bird has reached the point of dehydration from not drinking, then attention wasn't received fast enough. The advantage of Sulfadimethoxine is that it lasts longer in the birds system. The recommended amount of the drug administered in water is a safe enough level (Di-Methox for example). If you are having such complex problems with your birds, it could be the result of your own making. It could even be something besides Coccidiosis. I've never lost a bird to Coccidiosis and have all sorts of migratory birds and other critters in my area. Prevention is key, not waiting until problems progress. The main point I was making was that your claim of yogurt in the diet, in addition to Corid won't likely treat the problem, but Probiotics, some of which are found in yogurt, are a great preventative for intestinal diseases. The variety of water dispersible probiotics are more easily absorbed by the bird than those found in yogurt. That's all. Good luck.

You missed my point in its entirety starting with information provided in first post. No assumption is made (+/-) about probiotic nature of the yogurt, rather it promotes feed intake and thus greater control over dosage and may, I state "may:, actually improve outcome hence the need for a further look.


If I had not already established the benefical effects of Corid, then I would withhold its use with and without use of the yogurt but Corid has already been demonstrated to be effective by itself. Mortalities would be much higher without its use. The yogurt is suspected of making further improvements in outcome. Mechanism is not known but enhancing feed intake is known and strongly suspected of being important. Simply throwing broad spectrum treatments at problem is not a long-term way of controlling losses.