Young (3-4 months old) roo fading away :( Update - no cocci found, but fading continues...

[cowcreekgeek]

Please take a poop sample to the vet and check for worms before you treat as sometimes over reacting and treating for everything can backfire. BTW you only need a small splash of ACV in your waterer, if you can smell it it's to much.

Quote:

I took a sample to the vet's already, it came back absolutely clear. However, before with another bird the sample was clear too and a week later I found worms in it when she pooped.

Thanks, I was wondering that about ACV, I will adjust the dose (though I try not to overdose it and I taste it so it tastes only like water before I give it).

Although I've seen dosages (by drs. @ edu sites) from 4 teaspoon/gallon up to 8.5 teaspoons/gallon, the target acidity appears to be between 5~6 pH. The 'smell test' and the 'taste test' sounds like a fairly reasonable proximity, except that sensitivities vary ... teaspoons are always the same. For convenience, I've got a gallon jug w/ a cap that holds just shy of five teaspoons, which makes hittin' the right concentration real simple.

And, that float test ... this happens sometimes w/ intestinal worms, as Dudu has shown. Vets can only verify the presence of some worms, and only if the evidence is w/in the sample provided; they can't definitively establish that worms are *not* w/in any bird.

 

[Dudu]

Cowcreekgeek (sorry, I don't know your name yet!), thank you SO much, what a wealth of information.... So if I don't find Valbazen in a veterinary pharmacy, do I just go to a human pharmacy, right?

Lenny is acting a bit strange now - as of yesterday, he kind of became shortsighted (or the opposite, what is it called?) - he pecks at food but not close enough to it, and when you bring it closer to his beak, he tilts his head back or sideways from it and continues to try to peck at it. So yesterday morning I had a big problem feeding him because I had to synchronize his pecking attempts with shoving the moistened food (with yogurt and ACV) close to his beak so he'd grab it at least accidentally. However, by the evening he got so hungry that with this method we managed to fill his crop in less than 10 minutes. Strangely enough, it's easier for him to pick on greens - I now gave him some parsley and he pecked each and every leaf very successfully as I was holding it in my hand. Go figure..... Otherwise he seems to be seeing perfectly, he knows where his half-brother and sister are, he tries to scratch on transparent bags of pigeon feed (various grains that I give additionally to the ones here in the house) and in general seems even more active than before. He is VERY thin, I don't know how he is still functioning at all, but the good thing is that now at least his crop is emptying perfectly over night (now that I give him a moist mash of broiler pellets, oat flakes, live yogurt, avian enzyme and ACV).

I am not getting my hopes up too high but sounds like trying to treat for tapeworms makes sense, could it be that he's the only one that got them and his brother and sister somehow escaped?

I don't want to harm him with it either, but at the same time waiting and doing nothing is bad too.... But for now he is still alive and in a very good mood most of the time, which amazes me.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Cowcreekgeek (sorry, I don't know your name yet!), thank you SO much, what a wealth of information.... So if I don't find Valbazen in a veterinary pharmacy, do I just go to a human pharmacy, right?

Lenny is acting a bit strange now - as of yesterday, he kind of became shortsighted (or the opposite, what is it called?) - he pecks at food but not close enough to it, and when you bring it closer to his beak, he tilts his head back or sideways from it and continues to try to peck at it. So yesterday morning I had a big problem feeding him because I had to synchronize his pecking attempts with shoving the moistened food (with yogurt and ACV) close to his beak so he'd grab it at least accidentally. However, by the evening he got so hungry that with this method we managed to fill his crop in less than 10 minutes. Strangely enough, it's easier for him to pick on greens - I now gave him some parsley and he pecked each and every leaf very successfully as I was holding it in my hand. Go figure..... Otherwise he seems to be seeing perfectly, he knows where his half-brother and sister are, he tries to scratch on transparent bags of pigeon feed (various grains that I give additionally to the ones here in the house) and in general seems even more active than before. He is VERY thin, I don't know how he is still functioning at all, but the good thing is that now at least his crop is emptying perfectly over night (now that I give him a moist mash of broiler pellets, oat flakes, live yogurt, avian enzyme and ACV).

I am not getting my hopes up too high but sounds like trying to treat for tapeworms makes sense, could it be that he's the only one that got them and his brother and sister somehow escaped?

I don't want to harm him with it either, but at the same time waiting and doing nothing is bad too.... But for now he is still alive and in a very good mood most of the time, which amazes me.

I'm just a finder of fact, that retains entirely too much information (and, it's d@niel ~'-)

::edit:: Albendazole (which is the active ingredient w/in Valbazen) ::/edit:: is one choice that's found in the list of treatments for each and every type of worm chickens get. Now, the fenbendazole is effective on gapeworms, at 20 mg/kg., and it's reportedly milder, but they claim this one to be relatively safe as well ...
Valbazen is supplied in 500 ml, 1 liter, and 5 liter bottles of an 11.36% suspension, which ain't exactly individual doses -- it's a bit over $40 for 1/2 liters, and about $75 per liter beyond that, from Valley Vet Supply. But, then again? I doubt he can afford to wait.

In chickens, the reported dose is 10 mg/kg of body weight (personal communication).

The food mixture sound good enough for humans to eat, too ... sorta like my feedin' my dog feed that costs more per lb. than cheap cuts of meat. If the others are eatin' the same grains, it's unlikely that the source of his trouble can be found w/in your supplies, unless that other half w/in the others makes 'em more resistant. Speaking of which: Parsley is a fantastic source of Vitamin C, w/ each sprig containing more than a whole orange does.

Which brings up another concern ... that the nutrition may become "too good" for your chicken(s) for too long: Another on here has a bird w/ intoxification from toxins, and during treatment, was including extras in the food, resulting in toxicity from excessive amounts of vitamins. See? Sometimes, you just can't seem to win. Another concern w/ wormers is that, when a bird is badly infested, they digest the dead/dying worms, resulting in far too much protein ... the fenbendazole might still be the wiser choice for initial treatment, most esp. since you could treat him immediately.

 

[Dudu]

Thanks a lot once more for all the information!

A little update: Lenny is doing shockingly well, it seems that since yesterday his normal vision is back - he can peck and actually pick up things again, so today he stayed with his brother and sister in the big pen, and when I came home his crop was filled with dry pellets that they eat (cos these few days I gave him the moist mixture, and this morning too). We'll see how his crop feels in the morning. He is very active, and since I haven't done anything special other than regular ACV, I am wondering if so far that has helped to pick him up a little? Or the fact that we did a course of Flagyl earlier?

Meanwhile I am looking into the dewormers.

I also remembered the other day that as a small chick Lenny always wanted to sleep between his brother and sister, and he used to try and tuck his head under someone else's wing, LOL.... He hasn't changed, the other morning I was sick with a cold and wanted to sleep longer, so I took all of them in bed with me under the blankets (it's freezing here) and Lenny was in heaven, sandwiched between Perkins and Sister.

Today something good was also that usually when I come home, if he's stayed with Perkins and Sissy, they are both up on the perch while he is down standing in the corner. Well, tonight he was actually looking very cosy, nesting in the corner, not standing up anymore. I called him and he got up and came right to me - during these days of special attention he has learned his name for sure.

I will continue with updates. I so so wish for this guy to pull through for a change....

 

[Suzie]

Oh Dudu... that is such promising news - we are all hoping that Lenny continues to improve...... I know that Cowcreekgeek has given you some wonderful help - so credit to him for his expertise!

Thankfully there are some extremely knowledgeable people on this site.... BYC.... where would we be without you?

Suzie

Still praying for you both!

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Thanks a lot once more for all the information!

A little update: Lenny is doing shockingly well, it seems that since yesterday his normal vision is back - he can peck and actually pick up things again, so today he stayed with his brother and sister in the big pen, and when I came home his crop was filled with dry pellets that they eat (cos these few days I gave him the moist mixture, and this morning too). We'll see how his crop feels in the morning. He is very active, and since I haven't done anything special other than regular ACV, I am wondering if so far that has helped to pick him up a little? Or the fact that we did a course of Flagyl earlier?

Meanwhile I am looking into the dewormers.

I also remembered the other day that as a small chick Lenny always wanted to sleep between his brother and sister, and he used to try and tuck his head under someone else's wing, LOL.... He hasn't changed, the other morning I was sick with a cold and wanted to sleep longer, so I took all of them in bed with me under the blankets (it's freezing here) and Lenny was in heaven, sandwiched between Perkins and Sister.

Today something good was also that usually when I come home, if he's stayed with Perkins and Sissy, they are both up on the perch while he is down standing in the corner. Well, tonight he was actually looking very cosy, nesting in the corner, not standing up anymore. I called him and he got up and came right to me - during these days of special attention he has learned his name for sure.

I will continue with updates. I so so wish for this guy to pull through for a change....

Great news, and further proof of the powers of ACV, not to say the other couldn't provide benefit as well ~'-)

Gonna paste/edit my post submitted minutes ago, in the blizzy is dizzy thread ...

### begin paste ###

Dosages shouldn't be adjusted for the bird's condition, but only for their size(s) ... it's based upon the weight, and targets specific ppm, by the usual form of milligrams of the available active ingredient per kilogram of the total body weight of the bird. I can help you do the math, once you determine which form you've obtained, and concentrations.

Rather than dosing via free-choice, I'd just incorporate into the food/water offered, splitting the dosage up into two half doses per day. Knowing the more precise weight of Blizzy would be the best idea, so as to target very specifically the correct dosage, even though overdosing w/ Amprolium or Fenbendazole isn't really considered particularly hazardous to any bird.

Here's Merck Vet Manual's information on coccidiosis, and here's an exhaustingly thorough report on Amprolium, including the specific dosage:
Dosage for Amprolium, EMEA/MRL/767/00-FINAL
Yet another new study on the use of Fenbendazole to treat nematodiasis, from PubMed.gov, where I also found this study, reporting an even higher dosage:
Vet Rec. 1983 Apr 30;112(18):433-4.: But, by far, my favorite study on the use of Fenbendazole provides the following dosage:
Efficacy of fenbendazole against helminth parasites of poultry in Uganda.


Which is why I suggest 20 mg/kg for 3 consecutive days as the minimum amount req'd so as to eliminate helminths, including gapeworms, as the possible cause of Blizzy's symptoms ~'-)

### end paste ###

And, no editing req'd ... spares me a few minutes in my chair ~'-)

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Oh Dudu... that is such promising news - we are all hoping that Lenny continues to improve...... I know that Cowcreekgeek has given you some wonderful help - so credit to him for his expertise!

Thankfully there are some extremely knowledgeable people on this site.... BYC.... where would we be without you?

Suzie

Still praying for you both!

Thank you for your kindness, but the phrase, "I stand upon the shoulders of giants," comes to mind ...
I'm merely finding the facts, and arranging them logically ~'-)

 

[Dudu]

I'm merely finding the facts, and arranging them logically ~'-)

That's often times 90% of the whole deal!!!

 

[Dudu]

Still praying for you both!

Thans soooo much!!

 

[flowerchild59]

If you look at my signature line there is a link to a long posting regarding parasites and their treatment. Good luck to you. Valbazen is the way to go.