BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[southernmomma]

Hello

I mostly hide and watch but there is a wealth of information to be found; I enjoy this thread and the voices that can be found here.

Cheers,
M

 

[bmvf]

I've finally read the previous 37 pages over the past week and hope some of that info sank in! I've done a few searches on 'chicken breeding' and had little to no luck except for this thread. I like RedRidge's comments a few pages back. If you want to know more about me read my introduction https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/871742/hello-from-se-pa To sum it up, I'm a dairy farmer, have small children and have experience raising Barred Rocks, Road Island Reds, dark cornish and cornish x's which were all purchased as chicks from McMurray hatchery over the past few years.

I've been considering breeding chickens because, well... that's my style I guess. Why buy chicks from the hatchery when you can breed your own? I want to breed a chicken that is 'dual' purpose. I want to 'harvest' the males for the table at an early age and want around 200 eggs a year. I'm not sure if that is unrealistic or not. When considering what breeds to use I am leaning towards Delawares at the moment. Barred Rocks may be an option too. I like a pretty bird and have looked at the Campine. This thread gained my interest in New Hampshires.

Are there any other threads, sites, or books that would help me learn? Should I pure breed or crossbreed? Any other thoughts?

To comment on the little tiff with the experience versus age thing. I'm 32 and am one of those that thought I knew a lot at a young age. I have found that learning new ventures (such as chicken breeding, gardening) keeps me humble. I can take a break from spouting off about how much I know about dairy farming and try to learn how to breed chickens which seems to be way over my head!

 

[3riverschick]

Hi bmvf.
As a matter of fact there is another thread on BYC you might like. We were just discussing farmers earlier and how important they could be to having productive poultry and helping heritage breeds at the same time. It's called the " Heritage Large Fowl Phase II " thread.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/849075/heritage-large-fowl-phase-ii/5720#post_13331154
Lots of farmers on it who understand the want of heritage breeds and the need for productivity at the same time. One of the thread's big purposes is to help folk interested in heritage large fowl choose a breed and then find them birds from top strains. Cuts thru all the hassle of searching the poultry papers, and such. Many folk from this thread also belong on that thread. Come on over and jump right in!
Best Regards,
Karen and the Light Sussex
in western PA, USA

 

[mithious]

After reading several threads on this great site, I've become convinced that there must be many people, lurkers or those who fear being jumped upon, who are simply interested in breeding chickens for production.

Breeding for egg production has been my life-long hobby and I have never disparaged those who breed strictly for conformation, to the Standard of Perfection, as written by folks who had their ideals met and transcribed long ago and I do not intend to begin here.

In fact, I intend to begin a SOP breeding project in the near future, with a breed that will require considerable dedication and commitment. That being said, I have started this thread for those of us that enjoy the fruits of our labors in egg and meat production and who really don't care if our chickens meet some arbitrary set of rules that can at best, be very subjective.

With egg and meat production....the quality can be seen and tasted. No need for a third party to give us their opinions, with the possible exceptions...if we sell eggs or meat birds, we had better produce quality or our efforts will be in vain.

EDIT: This thread is as much for the SOP folks as anyone. I think they need to realize (many do) that production was the primary reason for having chickens 'back in the day'.

This is what drew me to this thread. I believe that we can the best of both worlds. With hard work and dedication. I have worked with the BR's, until now. Back when we had chickens, the Standard that was written, took in the true utility nature of the BR's. In other words. the SOP was written for the utility first. The birds we had, did lay wonderfully and the meat was awesome. I also showed them and won, all over New England. Wish I still had those blue ribbons.

My point is that I believe that we CAN bring back the utility in the Standard birds and should. There are some great breeders out there, that are doing just that. Not breeding just for "pretty" to win at a show, but to have the meat and egg production that these birds used to have.

The BR was the backyard American bird, for many many generations. You saw them on just about every farm and they were gorgeous, but they had to produce. Many people depended on them, for their meat and eggs. There are many other breeds that are in danger of becoming "just a show bird" that some truly dedicated people are working with now also and are becoming successful at bringing back those old time birds, to what they were meant to be, dual purpose birds, with the ability to show. I want to do just that. That is one of the reasons I got back into chickens. JMHO

 

[hellbender]

This is what drew me to this thread. I believe that we can the best of both worlds. With hard work and dedication. I have worked with the BR's, until now. Back when we had chickens, the Standard that was written, took in the true utility nature of the BR's. In other words. the SOP was written for the utility first. The birds we had, did lay wonderfully and the meat was awesome. I also showed them and won, all over New England. Wish I still had those blue ribbons.

My point is that I believe that we CAN bring back the utility in the Standard birds and should. There are some great breeders out there, that are doing just that. Not breeding just for "pretty" to win at a show, but to have the meat and egg production that these birds used to have.

The BR was the backyard American bird, for many many generations. You saw them on just about every farm and they were gorgeous, but they had to produce. Many people depended on them, for their meat and eggs. There are many other breeds that are in danger of becoming "just a show bird" that some truly dedicated people are working with now also and are becoming successful at bringing back those old time birds, to what they were meant to be, dual purpose birds, with the ability to show. I want to do just that. That is one of the reasons I got back into chickens. JMHO

Welcome to this thread. I certainly hope you are correct in your fix on the situation. It could be the only salvation for some breeds.

RON

 

[hellbender]

I've finally read the previous 37 pages over the past week and hope some of that info sank in! I've done a few searches on 'chicken breeding' and had little to no luck except for this thread. I like RedRidge's comments a few pages back. If you want to know more about me read my introduction https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/871742/hello-from-se-pa To sum it up, I'm a dairy farmer, have small children and have experience raising Barred Rocks, Road Island Reds, dark cornish and cornish x's which were all purchased as chicks from McMurray hatchery over the past few years.

I've been considering breeding chickens because, well... that's my style I guess. Why buy chicks from the hatchery when you can breed your own? I want to breed a chicken that is 'dual' purpose. I want to 'harvest' the males for the table at an early age and want around 200 eggs a year. I'm not sure if that is unrealistic or not. When considering what breeds to use I am leaning towards Delawares at the moment. Barred Rocks may be an option too. I like a pretty bird and have looked at the Campine. This thread gained my interest in New Hampshires.

Are there any other threads, sites, or books that would help me learn? Should I pure breed or crossbreed? Any other thoughts?

To comment on the little tiff with the experience versus age thing. I'm 32 and am one of those that thought I knew a lot at a young age. I have found that learning new ventures (such as chicken breeding, gardening) keeps me humble. I can take a break from spouting off about how much I know about dairy farming and try to learn how to breed chickens which seems to be way over my head!

I hope you found this thread helpful because that is the primary focus...to help those who might be headed down blind alleys and through BS mazes. I see you have been led to another thread by one of our valued contributors. She is correct, that is a very informative thread and one that I visit frequently.

Hopefully you can deal with more than two threads...this site is a veritable cornucopia of information. Be prepared to sort through the fiction and cling to the precious posts that you find meaningful.

RON

 

[cracrzy4chicks]

You want them to grow out in line with what they are supposed to be. You do not want to choose the excessively fast in some breeds. It would not be in keeping what they are supposed to be. They are all different. I would not expect a Jersey Giant to grow out like a New Hampshire or a Minorca like a Leghorn. If you notice that the different varieties have their own path. They are different birds. Then there is also a marked difference between the cockerels and pullets. Everyone has to find their own ideals.

As far as pushing them . . . . that is a management issue that everyone would have a different opinion on. I feed mine what I think is a good growing ration and let the genetics speak for themselves.

One of the points was to be aware of our bird's growth curve and know how they measure up. Once you see them through a couple generations, you kind of know where they are at and where you would like to see them.

This was never meant to be directions, but encouragement to watch it as they grow out. It has helped me understand how it relates to the birds that I raise. It has also helped me see what I wanted to see improved. My Catalanas get around Standard size eventually, but do not flesh out early enough to be useful dual purpose birds. If I waited until a late date to evaluate them, they are already tough. They are sexually mature at an early age. By the time they have the size and weight, they are no longer tender. It is not just the final weight that makes them useful.

EB Thompson bragged that his Rocks had good fleshing early on. It was a remarkable trait to him. I like to see this to. I do not want to see a NH that is all feather @ 8wks, because he will not be a whole lot better at 12 wks. Regardless of how big they get eventually. I want to pick that little 8wk old cockerel up and feel like I have something in my hand, and not be misled by feather. This is genetics more than it is feed.

I'm new to chickens, only had them 3 years. I started with hatchery stock and fell in love with the Australorps. Last year I was able to acquire quality hatching eggs and chicks from 2 different sources. So this spring I have a nice bunch of Aussies to work with. It is amazing though, as G said above, the biggest "looking " bird is not always the biggest. I was handling my young hens this morning. I have a few that look quite large and robust, but was disappointed when I picked one of them up, to realize she had no real weight to her. She is all feathers. But, on a good note I also have a couple, that although they don't look as large, when I picked them up they are good solid, hefty girls. These girls will be going in with my rooster to start my "project" of improving the size of my birds.
This thread is a wealth of knowledge.

 

[YardBirdMom]

For newbies like me, what is APA SOP? Obviously from a previous post it's a book, I'm assuming it is a guide about chicken standards???

Leads me to another question: What are the "Standard Breeds"?

Be gentle folks .... we were all chicken illiterate once

 

[southernmomma]

I'm pretty happy to see you on this thread, your strain of RIR interest me

You posted that the Underwood line is broody and then sometime last year (?) mentioned that your RIR had breast meat to rival a cornish X. So, can we talk? I'm searching for a bird that will propagate with little to no interference aside from a proper breeding program, can effectively rustle some of its grub, has light and dark meat and is in "good shape" as a breed in general. I'm rather indifferent about eggs. I did try to work my way through the RIR thread but I have a terrible tendency of getting caught up in detail and personalities when I'm reading.

You seem like a straight shooter and I would appreciate your input. I'm clear on the differences between standard bred/hatchery and also the differences between a homestead chicken meat quality and that of a hybrid. Since this is a production thread I don't think it's too off topic but of course you're welcome to simply pm me

Cheers!
M

 

[Kassaundra]

For newbies like me, what is APA SOP? Obviously from a previous post it's a book, I'm assuming it is a guide about chicken standards???

Leads me to another question: What are the "Standard Breeds"?

Be gentle folks .... we were all chicken illiterate once

It isn't so much "standard breeds" as it is the standard of perfection of each recognized breed. There are hundreds of recognized breeds each w/ it's own standard of perfection and what colors, shapes, sizes, feather patterning, eye color, leg color, feather placement, skin color, egg color, etc.......... it goes on and on for each individual breed. To further confuse things the APA part is American Poultry Assoc. the breed can be called by the same name but have completely different standards in diff. countries.