BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

I am still pretty new to poultry I got my first chickens last spring. I started with abt. 2 dozen birds and wanted to raise some for eggs and some for meat for my DH and I. But we have found we don't want to eat the birds we raise. Also I was wondering if someone could help me kind of figure out where to go from here.

Last year a small community of people that have moved into our area like fresh meat and stopped when they saw our birds in the run and asked if they could buy some of our birds. Well we sold them some, and they kept coming back for more every month they told their friends about about our birds and they started coming to buy birds. Then people driving by stop and ask if they can buy some birds. Others came to see our set up and asked to buy birds. Truckers traveling thru stop and ask if they can buy birds...
My thing is I know how many I sold last year and thought I would double the number of birds to have here this year, but now people are asking to buy chicks also. I bought over 100 birds hoping to get some grown out to hatch and keep a supply on hand but they are already getting into my stock and I can see I need probably twice as many or more. I am on a major hwy. And not far off the hwy is my coop and runs. They saw all the chickens and turkey last year and wanted some to start their own flocks or to eat. I have plans to build a
30'x50' building divided into 8 breeding pens and 2 grow out pens for the birds. I just don't know where this is going or how to plan for all this.

All of my birds are large fowl most I got from a couple hatcheries. Two breeds of chickens I got from breeders and would like to breed for other reasons.

I also ordered heritage turkey and bbw and bbb turkey so I will have alot more turkey this year. Last year I sold them all and did not have enough.

Can anyone give me some helpful advice please?

My only advice would be to consider the cost of the breeding flock(s). It adds up. be sure that you can offer them at a price that the locals would accept. Then I would suggest learning to breed good birds. There is plenty of junk around.

 

[chickadoodles]

This is only my opinion, but I think you should first decide how many birds of each variety you wish to overwinter as breeders, then refuse to sell them as meat to these drive-by customers. You can do this nicely, ask for their contact information and how many birds they might like next year and you will contact them when you have more in stock...and so forth and so on, but do not sell your breeding stock.

Second, decide what you want your poultry to do. Do you want to raise a few birds for fun or personal egg consumption? or raise and sell a lot of chicks? meat birds? layer hens? If you don't have the manpower or cash reserves or desire to start and maintain a chicken business, don't overextend yourself.

Start small, go slow and go down the middle of the road.....a wise man once said this to us on a different thread here, smile.

Best wishes,
Angela

Thanks Angela,
I appreciate your help and input. I will just have to stick to grown birds for now. Thanks

 

[chickadoodles]

My only advice would be to consider the cost of the breeding flock(s). It adds up. be sure that you can offer them at a price that the locals would accept. Then I would suggest learning to breed good birds. There is plenty of junk around.

Thank you Sir. I do want to breed good birds. I already went up on my prices this year. I appreciate your help and advice.

 

[thedragonlady]

This is a 6 week old Buff Orp cockerel that would provide a good 5-6 lb carcass at 5 months old. You can see the breast development already, and feel the depth of keel in your hand. What you can't see in this photo is that he also has a nice long, wide body that will also produce good layers. He has a plane ticket to Texas, not to the soup pot.




Quote:
Originally Posted by gjensen

You want them to grow out in line with what they are supposed to be. You do not want to choose the excessively fast in some breeds. It would not be in keeping what they are supposed to be. They are all different. I would not expect a Jersey Giant to grow out like a New Hampshire or a Minorca like a Leghorn. If you notice that the different varieties have their own path. They are different birds. Then there is also a marked difference between the cockerels and pullets. Everyone has to find their own ideals.

As far as pushing them . . . . that is a management issue that everyone would have a different opinion on. I feed mine what I think is a good growing ration and let the genetics speak for themselves.

One of the points was to be aware of our bird's growth curve and know how they measure up. Once you see them through a couple generations, you kind of know where they are at and where you would like to see them.

This was never meant to be directions, but encouragement to watch it as they grow out. It has helped me understand how it relates to the birds that I raise. It has also helped me see what I wanted to see improved. My Catalanas get around Standard size eventually, but do not flesh out early enough to be useful dual purpose birds. If I waited until a late date to evaluate them, they are already tough. They are sexually mature at an early age. By the time they have the size and weight, they are no longer tender. It is not just the final weight that makes them useful.

EB Thompson bragged that his Rocks had good fleshing early on. It was a remarkable trait to him. I like to see this to. I do not want to see a NH that is all feather @ 8wks, because he will not be a whole lot better at 12 wks. Regardless of how big they get eventually. I want to pick that little 8wk old cockerel up and feel like I have something in my hand, and not be misled by feather. This is genetics more than it is feed.

 

[bmvf]

Everyone's feed and birds is different. An average sized hen will average 4oz per day. Some of the bigger birds will get closer to 5oz. Then there is waste. For some it is as much as 20%.

And you have to count the feed when they are not laying. Also what it costs to grow them out, and whatever additional maintenance the breeders require.

If the bird consumed 160 lbs in a year, the feed cost .30 per lb., then you are somewhere near .20 per egg for a 200 per year egg layer. Feed is somewhere around 80% of the basic costs of keeping that bird. Add another 5 cents per egg for growing the bird to point of lay. Buying the chick will add a bit. If the feed is a little cheaper, and the birds laid another 20 eggs, it is not as bad.

Don't check my numbers. I just threw that out as an illustration.


Originally Posted by BGMatt
Ah the economics of raising poultry. This is highly individual due to feed costs and management style, but with my feed, my management, etc averaged out I figure it costs me around $1 per week, per bird. Obviously the first couple weeks and then at maturity it's slightly less but it makes my math easier when I'm pricing products (in order of preference I sell hatching eggs, chicks, started birds, eating eggs, grown birds, meat).

In dairy farming, feed efficiency is what makes people money, and what pushes people out. Too many times the dairy industry focuses on production rather than simply income over feed costs. I take this to heart as a grazer and crossbreed my cows for a more efficient, healthy, and therefore longer lasting cow. With my 'mutts' I am slightly below the national average for production but can cut almost 25% of my yearly feed costs by grazing. Feed costs take around 50% of my income. Also, my facilities are severely outdated but I can make the operation work by getting my cows out of the barn. Most young farmers in my situation would listen the industry and build a state of the art facility to push for production and milk more cows than they can feed. They would then have to pay off the facility for the rest of their lives, refinancing every time the markets make paying the bills difficult.

That brings me to my question with price per egg. At $3.00 per dozen, we can buy eggs at the store for the same price if not cheaper ( We haven't bought eggs in a while!). I'm sure buying cheaper eggs in the store isn't the point. But if we can lower that cost by foraging or finding cheap or discarded feed we should do so if possible. It also raises the question of productive life of the chickens and therefore the frequency of buying /raising replacements.

 

[RedRidge]

Speaking of feed efficiency, has anyone figured out feed cost per egg?  How about total feed from day 1 at hatching?  I read recently (I forget the magazine name) that a study with Delware's figured $.39 per egg.  I'm sure others on here saw the article.

Ah the economics of raising poultry. This is highly individual due to feed costs and management style, but with my feed, my management, etc averaged out I figure it costs me around $1 per week, per bird. Obviously the first couple weeks and then at maturity it's slightly less but it makes my math easier when I'm pricing products (in order of preference I sell hatching eggs, chicks, started birds, eating eggs, grown birds, meat).

This is interesting. Yes I have my costs in an extensive excel spreadsheet. .. beginning at week one, then weekly adjustments to 26 weeks. I'll have to consult that sheet to get exact amounts, but I found fascinating was the "order of preference" listed above. I sell eating eggs above and beyond all else, then the list is the same as yours. Why? Because that is a more constant and reliable number. I know that unless something unusual happens that I am going to eating eggs to all the same people next week... And the week after, and so on. Selling hatching eggs or chicks is not as "repeatable" as frequently. I sell eating eggs every week year round. I sell hatching eggs only in March and April every year, and only after I have hatched all the number I need/want in Jan and Feb.

 

[RedRidge]

 

 Everyone's feed and birds is different. An average sized hen will average 4oz per day. Some of the bigger birds will get closer to 5oz. Then there is waste. For some it is as much as 20%.

 And you have to count the feed when they are not laying. Also what it costs to grow them out, and whatever additional maintenance the breeders require.

 If the bird consumed 160 lbs in a year, the feed cost .30 per lb., then you are somewhere near .20 per egg for a 200 per year egg layer. Feed is somewhere around 80% of the basic costs of keeping that bird. Add another 5 cents per egg for growing the bird to point of lay. Buying the chick will add a bit. If the feed is a little cheaper, and the birds laid another 20 eggs, it is not as bad.

 Don't check my numbers. I just threw that out as an illustration.


Originally Posted by BGMatt
[COLOR=333333]Ah the economics of raising poultry. This is highly individual due to feed costs and management style, but with my feed, my management, etc averaged out I figure it costs me around $1 per week, per bird. Obviously the first couple weeks and then at maturity it's slightly less but it makes my math easier when I'm pricing products (in order of preference I sell hatching eggs, chicks, started birds, eating eggs, grown birds, meat).[/COLOR]

In dairy farming, feed efficiency is what makes people money, and what pushes people out.  Too many times the dairy industry focuses on production rather than simply income over feed costs.  I take this to heart as a grazer and crossbreed my cows for a more efficient, healthy, and therefore longer lasting cow.  With my 'mutts' I am slightly below the national average for production but can cut almost 25% of my yearly feed costs by grazing.  Feed costs take around 50% of my income.  Also, my facilities are severely outdated but I can make the operation work by getting my cows out of the barn.  Most young farmers in my situation would listen the industry and build a state of the art facility to push for production and milk more cows than they can feed.  They would then have to pay off the facility for the rest of their lives, refinancing every time the markets make paying the bills difficult.

That brings me to my question with price per egg.  At $3.00 per dozen, we can buy eggs at the store for the same price if not cheaper ( We haven't bought eggs in a while!).  I'm sure buying cheaper eggs in the store isn't the point.  But if we can lower that cost by foraging or finding cheap or discarded feed we should do so if possible.  It also raises the question of productive life of the chickens and therefore the frequency of buying /raising replacements.

Excellent points!
As the owner of a commercial dairy I totally agree and also recognize that way too much emphasis is put on output without taking input into consideration. THIS is the reason I rotate all stock (cattle, sheep, poultry, rabbits) daily. And this is the reason I cull heavily and all breeders are chosen based on forage conversion tracking. My 750 lb cattle that hang 62% and still produce milk for my family are much more valuable ) imo), than an 1100 lb animal of the same age that has no extra milk, hands only 50%, and consumed 3 times as much.

These differences are so obvious with cattle, but people forget to break these numbers down for smaller livestock because they think they are insignificant - they are not! Feed and forage use and conversion can make all the difference in a farmer making a good living and just scraping by (or worse).

As far as addressing your last comment about quality of input and replacement frequencies... I have found that cheap input is not the answer. Quality input brings a higher return. Why? Because the health of the animal is improved and because or culture is in a time that demands quality. Add an example. .. Take the soy and all gmos from your feed (while maintaining quality forage and plenty of animal protein) and all of the sudden people are more than willing to pay $5/doz for those eggs. That's just one example.

As far as replacement. I am doing a several year tracking chat of this. I have two flocks. One is a production layer flock, the other is a RIR standard bred flock. I keep the RIR to old age (to be determined but likely 8 yrs old). The production birds get rotated out every 2 yrs. The comparison after 8 years will be interesting, especially since the differences part way through are somewhat surprising. Keep in mind the are many criteria for comparing... Not just egg production, but carcass size, quality, flavor. And of course the variables of the input between the two different flocks as the RIR do consume more when in confinement over the winter.

 

[southernmomma]

In dairy farming, feed efficiency is what makes people money, and what pushes people out. Too many times the dairy industry focuses on production rather than simply income over feed costs. I take this to heart as a grazer and crossbreed my cows for a more efficient, healthy, and therefore longer lasting cow. With my 'mutts' I am slightly below the national average for production but can cut almost 25% of my yearly feed costs by grazing. Feed costs take around 50% of my income. Also, my facilities are severely outdated but I can make the operation work by getting my cows out of the barn. Most young farmers in my situation would listen the industry and build a state of the art facility to push for production and milk more cows than they can feed. They would then have to pay off the facility for the rest of their lives, refinancing every time the markets make paying the bills difficult.

That brings me to my question with price per egg. At $3.00 per dozen, we can buy eggs at the store for the same price if not cheaper ( We haven't bought eggs in a while!). I'm sure buying cheaper eggs in the store isn't the point. But if we can lower that cost by foraging or finding cheap or discarded feed we should do so if possible. It also raises the question of productive life of the chickens and therefore the frequency of buying /raising replacements.

I can't offer any thoughts on this but there are some folks that frequent this thread that have really neat ideas about alternative sourcing for feed~ perhaps they will drop in soon and be willing to discuss it

M

 

[pigsflyacres]

RedRidge, do you rotate your chickens behind your cows? I would think that the chickens would work for you in other ways by 'cleaning up' after the cows. This cuts costs too. Chickens get fed and lower parasite load on the bigger livestock that are more costly to worm. Just thoughts. Not sure if it actually works this way.

The barn where I keep my horses puts a flock of chickens out on the pastures when they are being 'rested'. Its a closed herd. We just really don't have new horses coming more than once a year. I worm my horse once a year. I get clean fecals on him every time, but I still worm after the first hard freeze based on our parasite pattern. I used to have to worm more frequently. It is about management. Its cheaper to worm a flock of chickens than it is to worm one horse.

Jennifer

 

[southernmomma]

Excellent points!
As the owner of a commercial dairy I totally agree and also recognize that way too much emphasis is put on output without taking input into consideration. THIS is the reason I rotate all stock (cattle, sheep, poultry, rabbits) daily. And this is the reason I cull heavily and all breeders are chosen based on forage conversion tracking. My 750 lb cattle that hang 62% and still produce milk for my family are much more valuable ) imo), than an 1100 lb animal of the same age that has no extra milk, hands only 50%, and consumed 3 times as much.

These differences are so obvious with cattle, but people forget to break these numbers down for smaller livestock because they think they are insignificant - they are not! Feed and forage use and conversion can make all the difference in a farmer making a good living and just scraping by (or worse).

As far as addressing your last comment about quality of input and replacement frequencies... I have found that cheap input is not the answer. Quality input brings a higher return. Why? Because the health of the animal is improved and because or culture is in a time that demands quality. Add an example. .. Take the soy and all gmos from your feed (while maintaining quality forage and plenty of animal protein) and all of the sudden people are more than willing to pay $5/doz for those eggs. That's just one example.

As far as replacement. I am doing a several year tracking chat of this. I have two flocks. One is a production layer flock, the other is a RIR standard bred flock. I keep the RIR to old age (to be determined but likely 8 yrs old). The production birds get rotated out every 2 yrs. The comparison after 8 years will be interesting, especially since the differences part way through are somewhat surprising. Keep in mind the are many criteria for comparing... Not just egg production, but carcass size, quality, flavor. And of course the variables of the input between the two different flocks as the RIR do consume more when in confinement over the winter.

@bmvf, I would LOVE to get good eggs for $3.00/dz!!
I think RedRidge is right. For example, we currently live in a "foodie" city and shop at a farmers market that is reputed to be one of the best in the country. There are several options for eggs but the gal who sells out minutes after opening is the one that promises day-ranged, non-gmo, soy-free eggs. At $6/dz. Obviously some of that is what the market will allow but some of it is also that she gets ($$) what she gives (quality).

Cheers,
M