Drained a Hen's Abdomen.. Rest in Peace, Olivia 11-5-10

[speckledhen]

She stopped laying 2 months ago. I posted a thread awhile back when she stopped but since she had no other symptoms everyone said it was probably nothing. Two weeks ago she acted ill for one day after laying a shell-less or lash egg, but came out of it on her own.
I just checked on her (she is in a dog crate with straw in my utility room). She stood up to change positions and when she did noticed a puddle of fluid underneath her. She is still draining through the puncture I made with the needle. Is that okay if I keep the area clean?

And it may have been nothing, but that's the point, really. We can't see inside to know if there is a problem building up so if you're with your birds and observing them daily and still don't see anything to make note of, it's not your fault. I try to keep people off the guilt trips, you know? Now, if they never pick up their birds to examine them, never even try to see if they are all doing well, just throw feed and water and walk away every time, that's different, but the point is, these laying issues build over time. Cancer, for example, takes time to take over the body and we just don't have xray vision.

Yes, it's okay to let it drain and clean her up. Better out than in, right?

 

[Trish1974]

My Goldie (in my avatar) passed away about an hour ago. I don't understand; as she was so much better after I drained off the fluid yesterday. She rapidly took a turn for the worse overnight. She was very weak, comb was turning purple, and would no longer eat or drink. I put her in a warm Epsom salt bath hoping to ease her discomfort. Within about 10 minutes I could feel her dying. I can't explain how, I could just tell. But it wasn't disturbing or uncomfortable. She passed about 10 minutes after that with my hands around her (I had to hold her up, she had no muscle control) and talking to her softly.
This is my first flock member loss and of course she was my favorite and the best hen (personality-wise) in the flock. I'm utterly devastated. Thank you @speckledhen for creating this thread. I hope it will help others like it helped me.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

So sorry @Trish1974

 

[Trish1974]

So sorry @Trish1974

Thank you!

 

[speckledhen]

My Goldie (in my avatar) passed away about an hour ago. I don't understand; as she was so much better after I drained off the fluid yesterday. She rapidly took a turn for the worse overnight. She was very weak, comb was turning purple, and would no longer eat or drink. I put her in a warm Epsom salt bath hoping to ease her discomfort. Within about 10 minutes I could feel her dying. I can't explain how, I could just tell. But it wasn't disturbing or uncomfortable. She passed about 10 minutes after that with my hands around her (I had to hold her up, she had no muscle control) and talking to her softly.
This is my first flock member loss and of course she was my favorite and the best hen (personality-wise) in the flock. I'm utterly devastated. Thank you @speckledhen for creating this thread. I hope it will help others like it helped me.

I'm very sorry for your loss, Trish. But, as I said, all draining does it make them slightly more comfortable. Hens like that are on their last legs. They usually rally a bit right before the end, but the end is always near. There was nothing you could do to save her, but you have learned something from the experience. Thank her for that and the joy she brought you. She was your first loss, but she won't be your last if you keep chickens any length of time. I've watched this over and over and over again. It never gets easier.

I am glad the thread helped you, though I wish it could have saved your hen (and all mine who came after Olivia, Ivy, etc....).

 

[twilightgecko]

i am so sorry. i've only lost one flock member, also my favourite, a BO too.. she was taken by a dog.. i never got to say goodbye.. at least you got to comfort her as she went.. [hugs] .. my barred rock Starlin is still very swollen and red on her bum.. i checked her this morning, she is molting and all her feathers are gone down there, it's warm and red and feels hard to me.. i am thinking she's internally laying.. but she's happy, eating and is bright eyed..

this pic from the other day.. now her bum is bare.. looks worse.. i don't think i will attempt draining.. feels too tight..
hmm.. just sharing, i didn't realize how common this kind of problem was.. of course, i've only been a chicken mum for 1 1/2 years.. this is my first flock..

 

[speckledhen]

@twilightgecko sorry to hear that. It's a VERY common problem and here is why:

From the article:

http://www.nature.com/nrc/journal/v13/n6/full/nrc3535.html?foxtrotcallback=true

The domestic laying hen is the only non-human animal that spontaneously develops ovarian cancer with a high prevalence. Hens ovulate prolifically, and this has made the hen intuitively appealing as a model of this disease in light of epidemiological evidence that ovulation rate is highly correlated with the risk of human ovarian cancer. As in women, ovarian cancer in the hen is age-related and it is also grossly and histologically similar to that in humans. In both women and hens, the cancer metastasizes to similar tissues with an accumulation of ascites fluid. Some aggressive ovarian cancers in women arise from cells in the oviduct; this is intriguing because ovarian cancers in the hen express an oviductal protein that is normally absent in the ovary

And here:
https://reeis.usda.gov/web/crisproj...in-aging-and-aged-commercial-laying-hens.html

Non Technical Summary
Ovarian adenocarcinoma is the second most prevalent tumor found in laying hens (Goss, 1940). More recently (Alfonso et al., 2005) reported that approximately 45% of all aged commercial laying hens had tumors of ovarian or oviductal origin. Ovarian adenocarcinoma is the fifth leading cause of death in women (Jemal et al., 2007). In spite of the high incidence and severity of the problem ovarian adenocarcinomas are extremely difficult to detect and treat early. This is one of the reasons that there is such a high mortality rate associated with these tumors. Much additional basic and applied scientific discovery is needed to find ways to detect, treat and prevent this condition. The result of additional knowledge in this area could help to avoid pain and suffering in hens and women. The chicken hen is the idea model for this particular spontaneous pathology because of the large number of ovulations that she undergoes during her lifetime. No other animal model is as applicable to the study of this problem in poultry and women.

Flaxseed may help. I fed mine flax seed, but it didn't do much, though I did not do it regularly.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100504124740.htm

In the race to find answers about ovarian cancer, researchers now have something to cluck about. The researchers have been using the chicken as a model to study this deadly disease and have recently discovered that a diet enriched with flaxseed decreases severity of ovarian cancer and increases survival in hens.

 

[WhiskyTangoFoxtrot]

My hen is an internal layer. I have had the vet drain her abdomen and give her Baytril antibiotic. She is still alive 20 months after her first episode. These hens don't have to die if your vet can drain them properly and give them Baytril at an appropriate dose.

I know this is a very old post but I was wondering if you remember the amount of baytril that was administered and for how long. My bird is going through this issue currently and the vet prescribed her 2 days worth of 1cc of baytril (unsure of strength) thinking that she had pmeumonia. She does not deal with vets very well so not sure how a stomach draining would have gone. Do they normally put the bird under an anesthesia to do this?

 

[speckledhen]

Wasn't Baytril rendered illegal to use on poultry?

I have never seen a hen live very long after a round of bloating, except once. Months, yes, years, no. And I think it was a passing infection that I caught very, very early. She is still with me now at 10 years old, that that is only one hen. All others, and I mean many, many hens, died eventually from their internal issues. Draining the hen is never a permanent solution.

No, they do not go under anesthetic to be drained that I'm aware of-it's just a needle prick, no need for medication for it. We drained several hens periodically, but we no longer do it.

They bloat up again almost 100% of the time. We give a round of antibiotics once and only once. When they bloat up a second time, we do not give any medications, period. Some "un-bloat" on their own, but it always comes back. This is a chronic condition. Yes, they can go on for awhile, bloating then having the bloat dissipate, but it will eventually kill the hen because the underlying issue has not been resolved. Most reproductive issues being genetic/hormone-based, you really cannot fix them, not permanently. Since I quit raising hatchery stock, it rarely ever happens anymore, as I've said several times. Now I have a barn full of ancient hens, LOL.

Some bloat can be from heart or liver issues so those definitely cannot be treated. And you cannot tell which it is from looking/examining the hen yourself.

 

[bawkbawkbawk]

I know this isn’t what you want to hear but I am in total agreement with @speckledhen

We kept a favorite hen going on Lupron shots and yes I think Baytril was in the mix, too. We prolonged her life a few months but I don’t think it was worth her suffering or the expense.

https://polloplayer.wordpress.com/2012/02/04/1000-days-of-autumn/

I have heard that chickens will die if exposed to anesthesia but have no personal experience.

We tried desperately to save another hen and subjected her to repeated vet visits and procedures, which I would not do again. The necropsy revealed ovarian cancer. She could not have been saved anyway and spent her last days being poked and probed at the vet.

As hard as it is to stand by and watch them die, I think that’s my plan going forward. Make them comfortable, honor their passing with gentleness and let them go.