Neighbors dog

[LowerBamaMama]

Is it crazy to expect the neighbor to pay for the chickens her dog killed? My chicken breeder told me the values if I was to purchase them and said I should demand she pay up but idk... And if I ask and she refuses, do I have any recourse? If her dog damaged property I'm pretty sure I could file in small claims court and she'd have to pay but idk with livestock...

 

[Blooie]

I was asked to take a look at this thread and see if I could help. Not sure that I have much to offer that hasn't been said, and I'm sure that some of what I have to say might not be received very well. But that's never stopped me before.

First of all, your dogs running loose sometimes and getting under her trailer, and her dogs coming onto your yard and killing your chickens are NOT two separate issues - not in this case and not in the eyes of the law. They are firmly connected by the fact that she has made it very clear that she does not want them on her property, just as she knows you don't want hers around your place. So it becomes a matter of, what is known in legal terms, as both parties having "dirty hands." I know your dogs are sweet and all of the other neighbors like to give them treats and such, but they are still NOT where they are supposed to be. And I know that you said your dogs are not causing any kind of damage, but if you can't see them you can't be 100% certain of that. For instance, did you SEE your dogs roll in the rooster carcass? There's an old saying, "The only person who doesn't hear a barking dog at 2:00am is the dog's owner." Okay, so that's the part where the yelling at me can commence. I'm glad that you will accept responsibility for any damage your dogs might do on another's property. But I'm sure that you'd want them to prove your animals did the damage, unless you personally caught them in the act and knocked on the person's front door.

Now, for what to do. You have two first steps here. One is to put away the telephone, the second is to document, document, document. Phone calls to officials rarely mean much and you can play phone tag until you have no chickens left. It's a waste of time by this point, and the more they see your name on the caller ID the more they are going to roll their eyes and say, "Oh, it's just the chicken lady again." Town officials do not like to get in the middle of anything that looks to them like a neighborhood spat. So fire up the word processor on your computer and compose a letter. You'll need to call up all of your word skills and make your letter short, firm, but leave the sarcasm, any exaggeration, and anger out of it. In the first paragraph simply state who you are, where your property is located, and what the issue is. In the second paragraph give the dates and times you have had problems, and you can do that in bullet form or outline form, and the ways you've attempted to remedy the situation. You can tell them that you've talked to the neighbors, and log in as best you can remember (making sure to use the word "approximate" if you can't remember the exact date and time you called) when and who you called. Give the responses you got and in your final sentence in that paragraph let them know that those responses are neither adequate NOR within the parameters of the law. In your last paragraph inform them that you have been in contact with the breeders of your chickens and have replacement costs available in an enclosure, but here's where you are going to have to be the bigger person. You are going to have to concede that although the cost might seem high, you are more than willing to meet the neighbor halfway. I know, it's a financial hit, but it looks far better for you if it doesn't look like you are just out to see what you can get. This letter should then be signed, and indicate on the bottom that you have enclosures and will be cc'ing another office. Those enclosures will be a copy of the "animals at large" and "killing livestock or domestic fowl" sections, a letter from the breeder of your chickens stating reasonable replacement costs, (a print out of an email will do here) and any photographs you have. You can tell them then that you'd like to set up a meeting with them to resolve this situation as quickly as possible because your goal is to have a equitable solution that all parties can accept to ease any further tensions.

This letter will be addressed to the mayor and town council of your community, if applicable, or to your local county officials as well as to the Animal control officer, in care of the town if you have to address it that way. In most communities, not all, the ACO is hired by the town council or appointed by the mayor. If it is sent in the mail, it MUST be acted upon by officials, whereas a phone call is just "he said, she said, they said, we said" communication. Send copies to the state livestock commission as well, and indicate on your letter that you are doing so. Every state has one, I'm just not sure what it's called in Alabama. Then from now until after you hear back from them, keep your dogs at home, no matter what you have to do accomplish that. Keep a camera handy to document her dogs coming back to your place. And for heaven's sake, keep your temper whenever you are dealing with these folks and with the local officials. Keep a copy of your letter for yourself. If you can afford it, send theirs registered or certified.

I am posting this as a former member of our community's Planning and Zoning Commission and as a Town Council member who was heavily involved in drafting our town's first animal ordinance. I know that we would always, always act upon any written complaint before sitting in a council meeting and listening to who called who first. I know it seems like a lot to do, but break it down into steps. Fencing is expensive, but if you look on Craig's list or in the local Penny Saver you can usually find dog kennels at a reasonable price. That will weigh in your favor as well because it tells them that you took her complaints about your dogs seriously and have taken steps to placate your neighbor. Good luck with this....just remember, YOU are the person who has suffered the loss and YOU have a right to expect that your local officials DO THEIR JOBS. They can do that much better with a calm, rational person.

 

[jimbob86]

The OP's story reminds me of one that I have heard many versions of over the years...... here's the Cliff's Notes version:

Jed the Farmer phones his neighbor Clem. "Clem!" Jed thunders, "Your dogs were chasin' my cows this morning! Keep them HOME"

Clem cuts Jed off, "Jed, MY dogs ain't NEVER chased no cows, and you know it. They're Good pups! Must've been somebody else's mutts chasin' yer cows this mornin'!"

Jed looks at the phone angrily for a second, then calms down and responds, "Maybe so, Clem ....... I could have been mistaken. Have a good day!"

The next day, Clem calls Jed, "Jed, have you seen my dogs? They went runnin' around last evenin', and weren't here this mornin'...... "

Jed replied, "Nope. I did shoot two dogs that were runnin' my cows just about sundown, but they couldn't possibly have been yours, because your dogs don't chase cows, and these two most definitely were ........"

 

[Sjisty]

In my opinion, if your dogs are allowed to roam free, then you cannot really complain about somebody else's dog roaming free. You are both in the wrong, even though your dogs haven't yet done any damage. Leash laws are for all dogs and dog owners.

Are you even sure it was her dogs? There could be another predator involved. If there were no witnesses, it may be very hard to prove in small claims court.

 

[jimbob86]

In my opinion, if your dogs are allowed to roam free, then you cannot really complain about somebody else's dog roaming free. You are both in the wrong, even though your dogs haven't yet done any damage. Leash laws are for all dogs and dog owners.

Are you even sure it was her dogs? There could be another predator involved. If there were no witnesses, it may be very hard to prove in small claims court.

+1.

Good fences make for good neighbors .....

Keep your dogs on your property, and advise that neighbor do the same....... this is REALLY important for the dogs' sake, because it appears AL law permits stray dogs to be destroyed (shot in the act?) if they are causing damage to "plantings" or harassing stock ....

 

[enola]

In SC you call Animal Control, they come over to do their investigation. If you agree to appear in court, they file all the papers and then they tell the dog owner when to show up in court. When you go to court, your tell your side to the judge, dog owner tells his side of the story. The dog warden tells the judge what he found in the investigation. Then the judge makes his decision and fines the dog owner.

The second time, every one repeats the above steps. If the judge finds the dog owner guilty again he can/or will order the dog destroyed.

You NEED to contact Animal Control to see what your rights are.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

I don't know. It's only my opinion but I see it like this. She does owe for your loss. It seems the only way for your dog and her dog to get to each others property is under her trailer. She doesn't want to pay out and one could sue or let it go for the sake of keeping some sort of neighborly relations I'd just fix/fence the bottom of trailer so neither dog can go back and forth. Done deal. Harmony of living is priceless and you don't have to confine your dog, which you don't want to leash but would have to if continuing your current path of action. It'll be tit for tat and frayed relations which seem to be the case now as you text her instead of knocking on the door and having a talk with her. But that's just me. I don't have to like my neighbors but do keep in mind I will continue to live by them.

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

I swear I'm going to get my local "dogs at large codes" printed and post them on the edge of my property. I am SO SO SICK of local people letting their dogs run. Electric collars DO NOT work. I'm in the middle of the wide open countryside. One neighbors dog I have chased off and returned to him 5 times in 6 months, and those are the times I SAW him!

The first one is on me - if I know who you are and the dog is able to be returned to you I will politely knock on the door, inform you why I am returning your dog and let you know that said dog is NOT welcome on my property -- after that, any repeat visit will end with said dog either being picked up by Animal Control or being driven to the local shelter to be turned in as a stray, this is provided the dog is caught just "being" on the property -- if the dog is caught actively attacking any of my animals the response will be decidedly different. The way I look at it, if you gave a hoot about your dog the first time would be the last time because you would realize that you needed to keep your dog home where he/she is safe.

 

[Mutt Farm]

In SC you call Animal Control, they come over to do their investigation. If you agree to appear in court, they file all the papers and then they tell the dog owner when to show up in court. When you go to court, your tell your side to the judge, dog owner tells his side of the story. The dog warden tells the judge what he found in the investigation. Then the judge makes his decision and fines the dog owner.

The second time, every one repeats the above steps. If the judge finds the dog owner guilty again he can/or will order the dog destroyed.

You NEED to contact Animal Control to see what your rights are.

Hi Enola. That's exactly the way it is in Ca. AC should have been all over this. We would even set traps if the homeowner couldn't catch the offending animal. I hope where she is in AL has the same laws.

 

[WYNot]

If AC and LEO refuse to lift a finger, then is time for target practice. If her dog returns and so much as looks cross-eyed at your chickens or at you, it is time for a dirt nap.