Saipan Jungle Fowl Thread

[Gresh]

Hey all! Here's a new thread for discussing a breed and displaying pictures: the Saipan "Jungle Fowl" thread!!! I don't actually own Saipans myself, but in the meantime, I noticed their wasn't a Saipan thread, so if anyone has any pics or experience with this rare and magnificent breed, please post here!

For those who are not very familiar with the Saipan, it is a very tall bird with a stance and frame that screams game bloodlines. Its legs and neck are exceptionally long, and its tail is rather short, even for a gamebird. Many colors have been created from Saipan bloodlines and called "Saipans", but in my opinion a bird that truly has Saipan blood will have a color pattern similar to BBR but with a golden orange/yellow to replace the red. Saipans are not true Jungle Fowl, which compose a family of about four smallish birds in Southeast Asia, but rather, more accurately, "Plains Fowl". They generally reach a maximum weight of 13 pounds in males and 9 pounds in females.

The Saipanese Chicken (as it should more accurately be dubbed) originated on the island of Saipan in the Pacific, as its name implies. A Mr. B.W. Saylor first brought the breed to the USA in the aftermath of WWII. By then, the pure Saipanese chicken had almost become extinct by mingling with various chicken breeds brought to the island by the Japanese, but Saylor was able to salvage five chicks with pure blood just in time. He theorized that the true Saipan chicken never had a comb (most "Saipans" have a pea comb today), and that offspring with flat or absent combs were closer to the actual Saipan than the pea-combed variety. Saylor also believed that the Saipanese chicken and the Red Jungle Fowl composed two very different families of chickens: Saipans, from whence we get our gamefowl like the Asils and Shamos; and the Junglefowl, from whence we get most of the other breeds. He based this theory on the extreme difficulties he encountered in crossing the Saipan and the Red Junglefowl. If I remember correctly, in the article "The Saipan Jungle Fowl" that he wrote in the 1970s, he said that, out of thirty settings of pure Saipan cross pure Red Junglefowl, he only got one live chick.

I have read elsewhere that pure Saipanese chickens are virtually extinct: excessive inbreeding and various attempts to reproduce the breed have ultimately led to its destruction. Hatcheries would be more honest to say that they sell Saipan crosses instead of pure Saipans; however, some hatcheries might sell the flat-combed variety of the Saipan, implying that they might have purer bloodlines than those with pea-combs. I personally only regard the BBG (black-breasted gold) flat-combed variety as the true descendant of the Saipan.

If anyone has anything they'd like to add to this, or if a breeder of the Saipan would wish to inform me of anything I have erred in writing, I'd appreciate it. I will post Saylor's article some time this weekend or next week to give you a better idea of his opinions.

One thing I'd like to add: Saylor was an evolutionist and probable atheist, and I do not agree with those views, so I don't agree with his "millions of years ago" statements in the article. However, even a creationist like myself cannot deny the concept of species adaption.

God bless,
~Gresh~

 

[old_cowhunter]

Finally!!!

Hope these help you all to see what we are attempting to conserve.

old_cowhunter

 

[Lauravonsmurf]

Difference of the boys legs…
The two largest boys

The largest next to the smallest

 

[hsaylor]

To put an end to the questioning of the Saylor story, it is 100 percent true. I am in no way a chicken expert, but I am BW Saylor's granddaughter. I grew up hearing the story from him and playing with the chicks on our farm. I have recently become interested in raising chickens and decided to do some research. Naturally I looked up my grandpa's story first (not expecting to find much) and I am thrilled with the results! I had no idea there was such a following (sorry folks, I was born in the city, chickens and the purity of their breeding is not the usual topic of conversation). I am meeting with my dad (BW's son) later to get more information and will share when I can. I will dig around for some pictures and share those as well. This thread has been incredibly informative and has definitely sparked my interest to learn more!

 

[JRNash]

 

[forkman45]

forgot some old photos

 

[Gresh]

Not that this thread is even being reviewed, but here's that article by Saylor:

THE SAIPAN JUNGLE FOWL- by B.W. Saylor (1977)

"The writer spent four years in the U.S. Navy and was all over the South Sea Islands. Most of the islands had wild chickens; the island of Ulitha, close to the Philipines, had some little black chickens that could fly up and over the tree tops like quail, and they were about the size of a quail. One day I saw a six foot lizzard grab one and "chomped" twice and swallowed it whole, live and still kicking. The best fowl I found were on the island of Saipan. These had long legs and necks, the cocks stood tails low, head high. They were black reds with grayisn, platinum, red cock hackles, tail feathers were redish gold. Cocks weigh six pounds or more. The hens were white on breast with black and white lacing on the upper part of the body. These chickens were game and would strike without a bill hold. They had small peacombs and some had no comb at all; not wattles. They had a big dew-lap in the center of the throat. A cock would have a certain area to run over and would have several hens scattered in this area. If another cock crowed in the vicinity, he would come charging out like a mad bull. There would be about four or five hundred yards between each cock's area and in this no-man's land, the bull stags would run. I have seen as many as two dozen together, and they would run like this until they were about two years old. Then one of them would challenge some old cock and take his hens and area. I questioned all the jap prisoners, and they said the wild chickens were there when they came on the island. I then went to the old Native Polynesian Chief and he said his ancestors brought the wild chickens with them when they first came to the island two or three thousand years ago. Most scientists think all domesticated fowl came from the straight comb Red Jungle Fowl - I say they are wrong and I think I can prove it. I brought back five baby chicks from Saipan in 1945. Three of these had no comb and some even to this day have no comb. After 30 years of breeding and studying them, I believe the pure ones never had a comb. So I am going to start breeding the no-comb to no-comb to see if I can not get them back pure again. Now for the proof I referred to -Everyone knows you can not cross a cow and a horse. No doubt they come from the same ancestors, but it is too far back, perhaps a billion years. A cow and buffalo will cross, so their ancestors branched apart just a few million years ago no doubt. Now the Saipans and the Red Jungle Fowl are extremely hard to cross; out of three setting of 30 eggs, I got one chicken, so I would say their ancerstors branched apart before the cow and buffalo did. The Guinea fowl are more kin to the Saipan than the Red Jungle Fowl. I have an 8-month Saipan stag running with five Guinea hens and I saw the stag mating with them so I set 10 eggs and hatched five chicks; all were fertile but some died in the shell. I think if the stag had ben older all would have hatched. They look like a turkey and a voice like a peacock. No comb and center wattle like the Saipan and are larger than either parent. I believe there were two strains of chickens; the Red Jungle fowl that took to trees and the Saipan that took to the plains. Finsterbusch and others thought there must be such a wild breed of fowl they called Gallus Gigantus but that don't quite fit the Saipans so I'll just call them Saipan because that's the last place on earth that they run wild. They do get some bigger when fed commercial feeds. No one knows where the Polynesian natives picked these fowl up - probably Samoa or some island on the way. It would have to be a place without trees and low grass as they developed their long legs from running and the long neck from looking over the grass, and if they ever had a comb, it would have got hung in the grass and got caught. The ones without a comb ould have got away to breed more. They being a plain fowl, they won't roost in trees. Some will sit lenghtwise on a 2x4 roost, will not roost on damp ground if there is a log or shelf in the pen they will get on it. They can hear much better than other fowl. They wil recognize my step before they can see me, and if a stranger approaches they will hide. I would say all our domesticated chickens have some Saipan blood - some more, some less. I think the straight comb fowl would have more Red Jungle blood and the peacomb more Saipan blood. All game chickens will cross easily with the Saipan, so they would all have to have Saipan blood. Only the pure Red Jungle Fowl won't cross, or they are extremely hard to cross. The Japs had let loose thousands of chickens on the islands - all kinds, some games, white leghorns, etc., you name it they had it. These crossed the wild chicken out. When I left Saipan in 1945, I doubt there were more than a dozen pure wild ones left and one more year would have been the end of them. So what I have, I would say are the only pure wild ones on earth. I do not have any Saipans for sale and if and when I do, will advertise in The Gamecock. I have only sold three pair of these fowl...." (The original article continued with some personal info, and under the timely suggestion of Vcomb I have left that part out.)

God bless!

 

[D3invertebrates]

The guy said that because of all the new breeds being introduced to the island the pure strains would be wiped out so if his assumption is correct there wouldnt be any that fit the original description. As for a gi having time to get chickens I definitely buy that, my grandad worked in a pow camp for nazis and he told me storys of how he had time to build a still and make good money over there selling snchapps.
I just got a few "saipan" Im sure there not pure bred but what is, were all constantly evolving.

 

[old_cowhunter]

This is my first posting. I wanted to offer some information on Saipans. The breed was previously known as the Saipan Jungle Chicken and the Giant Jungle Chicken. It first came to the United States via a Navy man, Beryl Saylor returning home from the Pacific after World War Two. I wrote a letter to the Governor of the Commonwealth of The Northern Marianas Islands back in the 1980's, and found that they were extinct on the islands.

In the 1980's, I was able to purchase a beautiful pair of Saipans from Hazel Matthews, of Tennessee. A few years later, a hurricane destroyed my pens, so I gave them to a co-worker (who is also an American Poultry Association judge) with the agreement that once I rebuilt my pens I could get a start from him. While rebuilding, I noticed that the exotic pet market had "discovered" Saipans, and the price for chicks jumped to $500.00 each, and the cost of adults rose to thousands per pair. In their haste to make a fast buck, many unscrupulous breeders bred Saipans to Shamo and Malay, to produce Saipan look-a-likes to sell as pure birds. My APA judge "friend" said that the birds "ate too much", so he gave them to a friend of his that lives in North Carolina. I was able to track down that individual, and he said that raccoons had gotten into his barn and killed all of the Saipans. I have no doubt what really happened to them.

Anyway, pure, or true Saipans, were almost bred out of existence by man's greed. Several commercial hatcheries now carry Saipan Junglefowl, but what they are unknowingly selling mixed breed birds as Saipans. Many of those selling mongrel birds told those interested in buying Saipans that their bird came from Hazel. This has largely destroyed her reputation, even though she had nothing to do with their lies.

All of the commercial hatcheries selling Saipans today are selling descendents of the mongrels produced and sold during the brief Saipan Craze. Most honestly believe that they are selling real Saipans, but they are definitely mistaken.

Saipans that came to the U.S showed two different comb types; pea comb and a walnut/strawberry type comb. I feel that the walnut / strawberry type, or a flat (no comb) is most probably the original type comb. With color, Saipans are usually Black Breasted Red. The first Saipan cocks I had were what some people have described as silver platinum, with wheaten colored hens.

I have traveled extensively in search of true Saipans, and was at last successful when I was contacted by phone one day from a man out west. He had raised Saipans for more than fifty years, with no introduced stock. He is in poor health, and had decided to sell most of his remaining birds. My wife and I drove out to Texas and picked up his senior cock and six hens. He has since sold all but two hens.

When we got home I immediately started up the incubator and set every egg that was laid. That was fortunate, because I walked into the pen a few weeks later and found the cock dead of unknown causes. I set every egg that was laid after he died in hopes of getting as many offspring as possible. Eggs proved fertile for 29 days after his death. Since I prefer the walnut / strawberry comb, I am breeding for that comb type. I culled all offspring that showed the pea comb, giving those to my brother in Central Florida as a satellite flock in case something were to happen to my flock.

Of those raised in 2011, I shared a few birds with a friend in North Carolina. That left me with a flock of six cocks and twelve hens. Some of the hens showed slight evidence of pea comb, but my goal for 2012 was to produce as many offspring as possible before our spring vacation. After culling twice thus far, I still have more than one hundred young Saipans to go though before deciding on my 2013 breeding pens.

I plan to develop seven different bloodlines in order to decrease the possibility of breeding depression such as that which I encountered when I raised Tomaru Longcrowers for several years.

While others raising mongrel stock are concentrating on height of the birds, my primary goal is to conserve the breed. Secondary goals here are breeding for the silver platinum color my first Saipans had, and for the walnut / strawberry comb. I am considering breeding a line for no comb or wattles.

A national conservation organization offered to do free DNA testing on my Saipans last year, but with the down turn in the economy, they lost their funding for the project. I am in hopes that the offer will be made again within the next year.

Ralph Wright
Lake City, Florida

 

[Total Chaos]

Here are a few pictures of some of my Saipans. These are not hatchery birds





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