Silkied Ameraucana Project

I think someone is going to have to break down and have a bird DNA tested for Silkie genes. I have done some looking but don't know where it can be done at.
Way back when..... a test breeding was done with silkies. With dominant genes present in that cross - several generations of selective breeding would have to occur to remove the traces.
I would not go unnoticed nor likely to be arrived at by "accident". AMs are also a selectively bred breed. So Am birds they are derived from were known to spontaneously produce silkied feathers.
Not quoting sources here as they were contained in the origional posts way back when.

Chickens evolved from dinos eons ago. They are all related. What defines a chicken breed is what it looks like and ability to reproduce true to self. Even with specificly individual registered pedigreed animals like dogs, cats, horses - after so many generations - even with a woods colt so many generations back, is considered "pure-bred" and registerable. So even in the unlikley even that some cross, and the breeders behind the silkieds were traced back several generations without that surfacing - it would be no different than introducing color genes upteen generations back.
Since there are still tons of genes let alone interactions as yet undefined, often the most direct route to the root of things is test breedings - and those were done.

Thanks Jean for reiterating that acceptance is a process and not a simple matter of aye or nay. Silkieds have a long row to hoe how ever we move forward. But since nothing about this/these projects has ever been easy - no biggie. It's understood that the process is in place for a reason. What is less understood is how a Q&D tag line linking to a posted BIN that CLEARLY defines them as a PROJECT warrants such virolence. Granted it was an individual incident and should be viewed as such rather than representation of the ABC. It can be expected to be an ongoing subject of discussion, even disagreement, for a looooong time - respecful observence goes both ways and serves us all far better. As always, thank you for your input.
 
My personal opinion on the silkied project is that they were crossed with something. I have seen yellow skinned offspring which is indicative of a cross.

Not a big deal since most colors have to come from somewhere, but I would say it is not a genetic mutation.

My main concern for this project at this point would be the failure to thrive issue. The birds seem to be very fragile.

Thanks for popping in and offering your perspective, it's appreciated :)

Definitely something to keep in mind about the failure to thrive. The hard part there is going to be judging when we have it fixed - it sounds like those of us getting in on this latest generation of birds aren't having the issues previous project members did, so that is at least on the upswing. But how do we judge when we have it 'fixed'? For meat birds like the Cornish X they have expected loss rates, but what would be in the normal/healthy range for Ameraucanas? I'd like to get some data on my own flock since my emphasis is going to be vigor, but having no point to compare (or know what data to collect) is part of the issue of working on fixing the health issues.

Sorry, my inner data junkie nature coming out today :)
 
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Catkai's birds are nice and healthy.. from my understanding she hasn't lost any .. so I think it's more a matter of husbandry than genetics..

Even the Cornish cross birds can live to be old enough to breed.. it's when people overfeed them too much feed and too high of protein that they start to keel over before their time.. sure a few bloodlines may be a bit less thrifty.. but you can lose any bird if they don't have proper care ... people swear turkeys are impossible to raise from poults.. but mine do great. With them it's usually an issue of people letting them get wet / chilled when they are too young.. keep them warm and dry and they thrive.
 
I have some of Kim's birds and out of 12 shipped eggs I hatched 7 chicks. They are now about 8 months old and are healthy. Even after a dog got in our yard and killed a bunch of birds, one of the Silkied got attacked and I thought she was going to die, she didn't and is doing fine other then her eye got injured. She is getting around, and not shocky. If any of they were fragile I would have thought that would have killed her
 
*I started this before the last few replies were made on the thread. My connection has been on/off today so I may have missed something I should have read but here goes... And no if I did not mention names, I am not going to in the interest of not starting a fight that really would be pointless.*

Yep it happens and didn't take long for it to pop up here. But as much as those people keep up the "slamming", we are still here... Just like those pure Ameraucana winning at shows that pop out that green egg I have heard of and seen, are still called an Ameraucana, these Silkied Ameraucana are going to keep being called Silkied Ameraucana. I don't give a rats rear who doesn't like it... Silkied is a feather type, they have it and they are Ameraucana...

I got eggs early this year from a guy that had Ameraucana he got "directly" from this big name breeder that breeds for showing. The egg color was really bad. I questioned it and was told that some show breeders do not care about the egg color, just the bird. I contacted another Ameraucana breeder and asked about their egg color and heard of coarse they lay blue eggs. If they didn't, they were not Ameraucana. I have had a few from various "top lines" that laid olive or blue-green eggs... All those shades found on the ABC egg color chart used to compare your Ameraucana eggs to.

My take on the Ameraucana - EE thing. I am breeding Ameraucana to Ameraucana not Ameraucana to any other breed. That's an argument that will probably always be around, don't care. Just like those saying it has to lay a blue egg to be called an Ameraucana... I have a pretty Lavender Ameraucana I got from a well known line, hatched from a blue egg and just laid her 1st egg. It's olive green, she's still an Ameraucana. I prefer the blue eggs so won't be using her but she's still the same breed she was before she laid that green egg...

Silkie is a breed. Silkied is a feather type. People will probably always be confused about it. Only thing to do there is explain it.

The original thread was started in Oct. 20, 2008 when the original pair was 18 weeks old, not 2010.

So far, not had any yellow or green legs show up. I did have a few eggs hatch from someone no longer in the project that were green legged and mixed feather colors, not 1 was silkied as advertised though. So sold them as EE's as I could not be sure of their breeding. Who knows what anyone in the beginning may have crossed to in the spirit of adding new blood if that is still showing up for some people. So far, I have not seen it. If I do I'll not be using it to breed forward.

Red bleed on the roo's, I have had some that have it and some that don't. Just like egg color it's something that needs to be worked on. I am not about to go nuts and toss out all my plans because of it. Just like that blue egg I am working on, some lay a blue, blue green and olive. All much better color than the egg color I saw early this year laid by those Ameraucana from a top breeder...

It's not been my experience that these birds are fragile. I have yet to loose 1 bird to any mystery death. I fully expected it to hit but in almost 2 years, it hasn't... Could be any number of reasons for the early losses, related to the genes or not. I treat them like any other chicken I have and they have been healthy and not the least bit fragile. If they were, I'd not still have them and not have so many of them...

I get so many messages about the price of eggs and birds. I have had it suggested to me by more than 1 person, that the price be set high to keep only serious people working on them. Prices in the beginning on these eggs were very high. Auctions were going over $100 alot of times. When I 1st started selling them I priced mine in line with what was already out there. As time has gone buy, I think the high prices are keeping a lot of people out of it that could be helping expand the project. They are either turned off by the high prices or drawn in seeing $ to be made in charging really high prices. No I am not telling anyone what they need to charge, just saying I won't be playing the keep the prices high game...

Breed for what you like and what is important to you. If your goal is showing then go that route and do what you need to do to get there. If egg color matters to you, work on it. If the total package is what you want, work on it. Want the Silkied Ameraucana in a color not out there yet, work on it. It would be great if this thread would be working towards helping those that are interested. Not turn into a thread for people (not pointing anyone out, just in general those against the project) - who feel threatened or whatever by the project to slam (insert whatever word you prefer) the project and try to turn people off of it...

This is a project, may be for a long time. Much work needs to be done. Some people are ahead of others on some points to be improved and not on other points. Some need work on eggs, color, combs - just like any other project...

Anyone working on this Silkied Ameraucana project care to share some pics with the group?
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I know some of us are also working on Olive Eggers & Easter Eggers that are silkied. So here is a place to go share those and not have them confused with these Silkied Ameraucana we are working on.
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https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/830332/silkied-olive-egger-easter-egger-projects
 
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CatKai, I have to say your birds are definitely not fragile for sure! :) They also have some really good blue eggs coming out of the flock so I just wanted to add a thank you for your work on that. Egg color is going to be hard to recover if we don't work on it now.

I have been stalking the hen house trying to find the layer of the very blue egg, but no luck today. I have her narrowed down to being one of 7 possible hens though!

On the upside of hanging around there, I do have the scematics drawn up for putting a trapnest door on the nestboxes. If this prototype works I'll just rig all the boxes up this way and leave them locked open.

May have some baby pictures soon, I have a round of eggs due to hatch today. Been sick so that has been my entertainment for the day :)
 
Well said Kim, I will post pictures along the way. I am in for the long hall, we should be able to improve our little project
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CatKai, I have to say your birds are definitely not fragile for sure!
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They also have some really good blue eggs coming out of the flock so I just wanted to add a thank you for your work on that. Egg color is going to be hard to recover if we don't work on it now.

I have been stalking the hen house trying to find the layer of the very blue egg, but no luck today. I have her narrowed down to being one of 7 possible hens though!

On the upside of hanging around there, I do have the scematics drawn up for putting a trapnest door on the nestboxes. If this prototype works I'll just rig all the boxes up this way and leave them locked open.

May have some baby pictures soon, I have a round of eggs due to hatch today. Been sick so that has been my entertainment for the day
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