White Eyes

[KsKingBee]

Okay here's a thought from left field, could he be split to Black Shoulder? I don't have any good pics of a Black shoulder with that first semi-mature train. I do seem to recall some odd whitish-tan markings showing up though. Here is a picture of a yearling black shoulder with the obviously mottled yearling train...... try to picture this as it transitions into the mature train. Could we be seeing a BS influence peeking through like those odd wing feathers on my pied split BS.

Breed to a strongly marked pied bird or a white bird, if you get white chicks, he is carrying a white gene ;-)

Visually, you can look for white feathers & throat latch, but I don't think you can tell whether this are from white or pied...Or maybe even from the we?

The results are in from last years breeding and they are varied indeed. This cock I call Pied Piper, was paired with an IB Pied I suspect is carrying BS, an IBSP, Cameo SP, and a Cameo Pied WE hens.

They produced;
White
IB
IB Dark Pied
IB Pied (cocks)
IBSP (cock and hens)
Cameo (cock)
Cameo Pied (cock and hen)
IBBS Pied cock, hopefully WE
IBBS (hen)

So far Pipers train is showing over a dozen white eyes. Picture to follow when I can get a good one.

 

[AugeredIn]

So Jacky and I were having a conversation via text regarding silver pied and white eyes. I moved the conversation hear as it is easier to record for posterity.

Jacky's question is does dark silver pied males have white eyes? The answer is yes.

The second question is what is the difference between white eye (We/We) and silver pied white eye (Wesp/Wesp). The answer is that one will produce silver pied birds and one will not. Other wise there is little difference visually.

I also had someone asking some general silver pied questions and where that specific mutation resided. The simple answer is that I don't know for absolute sure and apparently no one else does for sure either. If they do they aren't talking. I do have an opinion. Lets review what we know:

There are four possibilities for the location of the silver pied mutation:
1. The white gene.
2. The pied gene.
3. The white eye gene.
4. Or a totally separate location that either mimics one of the above or replaces it as an allele.

The first three possibilities make much more sense than number four.

So lets start with a pair of silver pied birds. If we breed them together we get white birds, silver pied birds and dark silver pied birds in the standard 25%, 50%. 25% ratio.

By experience I know that if I breed the silver pied birds back to each other they breed true and produce the same ratio.

By experience if I breed a silver pied child to a dark pied child I get dark silver pied and silver pied chicks. What does this tell us? It means the silver pied mutation must be on the pied or white eye genes if we assume number 4 above is not at play. It cannot exist on the white gene or the dark silver pied parent would not have produced silver pied chicks right? Sounds good so far.

By experience if we breed the white birds from a silver pied pairing to a silver pied sibling we get more white birds and silver pied birds. This tells us that the silver pied mutation must be on the white or white eye gene if we assume number 4 is not in play. But we already decided it cannot be on the white gene so that eliminates the pied gene and the white gene as the location of the mutation.

This leaves only the white eye gene or number 4 above as the possible culprits right?

Based upon this information my opinion is that the silver pied mutation is a mutation to the white eye genes. Unfortunately, it might not be this easy as there are reports of silver pieds being created from birds that don't necessarily originate from silver pied pairings. More experiments are needed and we just all have to provide our experience as we gain it.

 

[KsKingBee]

I MUST print off @AugeredIn post above! Outstanding post and thank you Phil!

I have to admit I have a LOT of questions to ask now, but I have to go back and re-read that post a couple of more times.

 

[AugeredIn]

Ask away. Maybe one day we will know more about what is going on for absolute sure.

 

[barkerg]

So Jacky and I were having a conversation via text regarding silver pied and white eyes.  I moved the conversation hear as it is easier to record for posterity.

Jacky's question is does dark silver pied males have white eyes?  The answer is yes.

The second question is what is the difference between white eye (We/We) and silver pied white eye (Wesp/Wesp).  The answer is that one will produce silver pied birds and one will not.  Other wise there is little difference visually.

I also had someone asking some general silver pied questions and where that specific mutation resided.  The simple answer is that I don't know for absolute sure and apparently no one else does for sure either.  If they do they aren't talking.  I do have an opinion.  Lets review what we know:

There are four possibilities for the location of the silver pied mutation:
1.  The white gene.
2.  The pied gene.
3.  The white eye gene.
4.  Or a totally separate location that either mimics one of the above or replaces it as an allele.

The first three possibilities make much more sense than number four.

So lets start with a pair of silver pied birds.  If we breed them together we get white birds, silver pied birds and dark silver pied birds in the standard 25%, 50%. 25% ratio.

By experience I know that if I breed the silver pied birds back to each other they breed true and produce the same ratio.

By experience if I breed a silver pied child to a dark pied child I get dark silver pied and silver pied chicks.  What does this tell us?  It means the silver pied mutation must be on the pied or white eye genes if we assume number 4 above is not at play.  It cannot exist on the white gene or the dark silver pied parent would not have produced silver pied chicks right?  Sounds good so far.

By experience if we breed the white birds from a silver pied pairing to a silver pied sibling we get more white birds and silver pied birds.  This tells us that the silver pied mutation must be on the white or white eye gene if we assume number 4 is not in play.  But we already decided it cannot be on the white gene so that eliminates the pied gene and the white gene as the location of the mutation.

This leaves only the white eye gene or number 4 above as the possible culprits right?

Based upon this information my opinion is that the silver pied mutation is a mutation to the white eye genes.  Unfortunately, it might not be this easy as there are reports of silver pieds being created from birds that don't necessarily originate from silver pied pairings.  More experiments are needed and we just all have to provide our experience as we gain it.

Great input, maybe this is a "candidate" article for the UPA magazine? Great read Sir and thank you.

Gerald Barker

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

Aren't the silver pied birds have not shown until the appearance of the white eye gene?

 

[Peafowlssssssss]

If you remember my bronze silver pied birds that produced from my white eye bronze hen x bronze split white eye and split white, they both ended as hens, this year I'm hoping they will lay, so they are both penned with their father again hoping to produce more silver pieds.

 

[Dany12]

This bird was sold as Blue Silver Pied .... but is it a Silver Pied ???

This is not a selection of Pied peacocks to obtain a very white Pied peacock.He is coming from Silver Pied parents or Dark Silver Pied ... or white " Silver Pied " !
In the ratio 50% Silver Pied they can be different kind of Silver Pied .
Where does this ratio come from ?

..... There is no eraser effect !

 

[KsKingBee]

I think I get just as confused as anyone else when it comes to being able to identify Silver Pied from Loud Pied.

First question, Is it true that a Loud Pied will have some 'bright' color and the Silver Pied has only 'muted' color? Or can a Silver Pied also have some bright spots of color?

As an example, my avatar has only muted color, but I have a chick from her that looks the same only it has a little bright green on her neck. Would she be a Loud or Silver because of the bright green?

The bird on the left?

 

[MinxFox]

Great input, maybe this is a "candidate" article for the UPA magazine? Great read Sir and thank you.

Gerald Barker

Great thinking! Yes a "Silver Pied Genetics" article would be very interesting and informative, and the results from my poll here on BYC so far is that most are asking for more information for the experienced peafowl breeder, which an article like this would be good for. @AugeredIn - If you are okay with it and have time would you write an article on your input about Silver Pieds and where you theorize the mutation resides? I know you already gave a wonderful talk at the convention on genetics, but it would be great if you could write an article for the next magazine (the one after this first one I am working on) which would come out in April. You can include a few silver pied photos too if you would like - if not I might use a few silver pied photos from Texaspeafowl since Sid told me I can use his photos.