Spanish (white faced black, white and blue)

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Bo Garrett

Crowing
15 Years
Feb 19, 2009
565
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We are currently involved in a project to improve the size and type of the large fowl Spanish chickens, this breed has been in serious trouble for decades and there are but a few dedicated breeders of these unique fowl in the U.S.
We got our start from Jim Bell and are currently crossing our pure Spanish with very large black Minorcas to improve the size of the birds first since this is where the Spanish is seriously lacking. Once size is brought back to the standard description we will begin working on the white face which is the most defining characteristic of the Spanish. We will then tweak the type and have Spanish that will compete in the show room but also be very productive egg layers.
The Spanish we have now lay very large eggs and lots of them, we currently have White Faced Black and White Faced White Spanish. White Faced Blue Spanish are developed from crossing the black and white Spanish.
These are a very active and flighty breed of poultry and are not for the breeder looking for a bird that will readily approach them and sit on their knee, these birds prefer to be in large open spaces and not be encroached upon by anyone or anything.
I look forward to getting these birds to the point where I am satisfied they meet the standard description and then getting them into the hands of serious breeders.

Blessings,


Bo Garrett
The Garrett Nest Poultry Farm
 
I am very interested in this project. I to have some of Jim Bell's Spanish. I lost one hen and my only rooster, so I have two black white faced, one white white faced and one white/blue splashed white faced hen left. I've had no luck in locating a rooster in my area.

I thought that by crossing a WFBS to any other breed the white faced was lost? I have thought of putting one of my Spanish import Blue Andalusian roosters with them just to see what I would get. If a Minorca would give me a percentage of white faced I could hopefully locate a rooster to get me back going.

Christopher Cockrell
 
You will lose the white face but the major problem with the breed, as I see it, is not the lack of white face but the lack of size. The standard calls for a bird one pound less than a Minorca and I have not seen an 8 lb Spanish cock. I have Minorca hens that will weigh 9 lbs but my Spanish males are about 5 at best. My goal is to get the size back to standard first then work on the type and lastly the white face. Using Minorcas because all my research indicates that the Minorca was derived from the Spanish and they are the two largest in the Mediterranean class.
I have a pair of WF Blacks and a pair of WF Whites, the blacks have bred true and produced nothing but blacks, however the whites have produced about 50/50 blacks and whites, I have about 60 hatched and still have eggs in the incubator. I have pure Spanish, Spanish x Minorca and pure White Spanish, I have also hatched pure Minorcas as I like these birds and want to keep pure birds of the lines I have in them. Contact me in the fall, I may have a cockerel or two to spare.

Blessings,


Bo
 
I was just given the pleasure, and pressure, of purchasing Sally Sunshine's flock of WFBS. I had a starter quad hatched from her eggs, and now have 4 lovely hens and a spectacular rooster. I've had chickens forever, but have never, ever, even looked at a standard. I want to do right by these guys, can anyone point me in the direction of the Standard, and help me get started?
 
How can I find contact information for Jim Bell? I'm going to spend the winter getting my um, chicks? in a row and then come spring really start working on my Spanish. There's some things I know I need to work on, one of them being egg size, another would be the size of the birds themselves, and would like some good outside lines to cross in with my flock.
 
Jim might not have any stock at the moment. Someone stole his flock. He had a few young ones they didn't get, but he would be just starting back now. I think there are a few others on here that have stock from him. You might be able to get eggs or chicks from them. I still have just two hens from the ones I got from him. I have had a trouble time getting a roo and keeping him.
 
"Stole his flock"? that's just bizarre. As well as horrifying. What would someone hope to gain... the birds would be recognizably Jim's, I expect... unless it was a crazed idiot who stole them to eat.



I would like to strongly take issue with the idea of "increasing" size of the Spanish by crossing with a Minorca. By so doing, one is not creating a larger Spanish, but rather a Spanish-Minorca cross somewhere intermediate in size between its parent breeds. Once you have added the Minorca, you are not going to get rid of it simply by good luck and guesswork. There are visible traits like the white face and tail angle, but there is also the breed's personality, as well as all the internal invisible things that separate it from the Minorca and from other chickens, and of course there is its history. In other words, there is a lot more to breed identity than the Standard description, if you are trying for breed preservation and care about the continuation of the Spanish as such, rather than simply winning poultry competitions.



Grading your crosses back to Spanish will take many generations to get the Minorca down to reasonable levels.



The old fashioned way to increase breed size, and the way most large breeds were presumably developed in the first place, is to prioritize size, vigor and rate of growth when selecting each generation of breeding stock. If there's any life left in the Spanish - and I think there is - this would be the way to go. Very early on, fanciers started prioritizing face whiteness over other traits such as laying and size, and by the mid 1800s people were already complaining that the fancy had "ruined" the Spanish and hurt its size and productivity. It's tempting to get hung up on the face since after all, that is what the breed is named for - although it was once called simply "the Spanish" and earlier in its development, when it was known for its production of large white eggs, the white face was not so extensive. Focusing on vigor and size is something we all need to prioritize, although it is so tempting to look the other way when a weaker, more delicate specimen seems to have the whiter face (I have been there). Where the breed is at now is the result of almost 200 years of breeders looking the other way.
 
Last edited:
Most of our American WFBS have the size problem. Numbers over standard for many years have added to this problem. Breeders know to get a good flock you have to hatch a ton of eggs over several generations and cull to a very few. This takes several years, which many folks don't have the patience for anymore.
 
exop said:
"Stole his flock"? that's just bizarre. As well as horrifying. What would someone hope to gain... the birds would be recognizably Jim's, I expect... unless it was a crazed idiot who stole them to eat.



I would like to strongly take issue with the idea of "increasing" size of the Spanish by crossing with a Minorca. By so doing, one is not creating a larger Spanish, but rather a Spanish-Minorca cross somewhere intermediate in size between its parent breeds. Once you have added the Minorca, you are not going to get rid of it simply by good luck and guesswork. There are visible traits like the white face and tail angle, but there is also the breed's personality, as well as all the internal invisible things that separate it from the Minorca and from other chickens, and of course there is its history. In other words, there is a lot more to breed identity than the Standard description, if you are trying for breed preservation and care about the continuation of the Spanish as such, rather than simply winning poultry competitions.



Grading your crosses back to Spanish will take many generations to get the Minorca down to reasonable levels.



The old fashioned way to increase breed size, and the way most large breeds were presumably developed in the first place, is to prioritize size, vigor and rate of growth when selecting each generation of breeding stock. If there's any life left in the Spanish - and I think there is - this would be the way to go. Very early on, fanciers started prioritizing face whiteness over other traits such as laying and size, and by the mid 1800s people were already complaining that the fancy had "ruined" the Spanish and hurt its size and productivity. It's tempting to get hung up on the face since after all, that is what the breed is named for - although it was once called simply "the Spanish" and earlier in its development, when it was known for its production of large white eggs, the white face was not so extensive. Focusing on vigor and size is something we all need to prioritize, although it is so tempting to look the other way when a weaker, more delicate specimen seems to have the whiter face (I have been there). Where the breed is at now is the result of almost 200 years of breeders looking the other way.
Click to expand...

Minorcas and WFBS are very, very similar genetics wise...as a matter of fact Minorcas were originally call "Red Face Black Spanish" in the Standard. Crossing them is common.
 

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