Spanish (white faced black, white and blue)

[Bo Garrett]

We are currently involved in a project to improve the size and type of the large fowl Spanish chickens, this breed has been in serious trouble for decades and there are but a few dedicated breeders of these unique fowl in the U.S.
We got our start from Jim Bell and are currently crossing our pure Spanish with very large black Minorcas to improve the size of the birds first since this is where the Spanish is seriously lacking. Once size is brought back to the standard description we will begin working on the white face which is the most defining characteristic of the Spanish. We will then tweak the type and have Spanish that will compete in the show room but also be very productive egg layers.
The Spanish we have now lay very large eggs and lots of them, we currently have White Faced Black and White Faced White Spanish. White Faced Blue Spanish are developed from crossing the black and white Spanish.
These are a very active and flighty breed of poultry and are not for the breeder looking for a bird that will readily approach them and sit on their knee, these birds prefer to be in large open spaces and not be encroached upon by anyone or anything.
I look forward to getting these birds to the point where I am satisfied they meet the standard description and then getting them into the hands of serious breeders.

Blessings,


Bo Garrett
The Garrett Nest Poultry Farm

 

[exop]

Matt,


I'm sorry, that's just not correct. The Minorca was added to the American Standard of Excellence in 1888 under the name "Minorca". No red faced black spanish were ever in there.

The Spanish and Minorca were both developed as breeds in England, but have been distinct breeds for as far back as there is any documentation (ie the late 1700s) and had different centers of development. Lewis Wright states that Minorcas appear to have been imported to the West of England, in at least two instances, by around 1830, from the Spanish island possession of Minorca. They were first locally popular there, in the West of England. Wright states that early on, in this local area, many early owners simply called them "Spanish"; however, this was because of their Minorcan origin, and not because they were a variety of the White Faced Black Spanish, and it was only for a brief time in parts of very early 1800s Britain. By the time the breed made it to the American standard it had been called the Minorca for years, and the White Faced Black Spanish was called simply the Spanish or Black Spanish.


WFBS are a distinct breed with quite a different physical type than the Minorca, had been in England since the 1700s at least, exact geographic origin unknown, some were brought from Holland, and they were a popular egg laying breed in the London area. They reached the US well before the Minorca and have been in all the US poultry standards from the very beginning, with a white face.

"Red Faced Black Spanish" have never been in the standard.


While both the Spanish and the Minorca have a mediterranean origin, along with the Leghorn, Andalusian and other kindred breeds, after over 200 years of separate breeding they have very distinct characters from one another.


If you have any sources to cite, I would be most interested to hear the details.

 

[Bo Garrett]

Not much on pictures, I do good to type the messages. I have about 70 Spanish hatched total and most are full Bell line or 1/2 to 3/4 blood Bell. They are a bit small but this is a problem with most Spanish, there are a few flocks out there that are close to standard weight but not many. I have crossed the Minorcas into them to increase their size and improve the comb structure on them. I certainly don't like he crosscut saw blade combs most Spanish have. The Minorca blood has corrected that issue and now we are on to getting the full white face back and I believe the F2 generation is going to have that so we are well on our way with the Spanish improvement project.

 

[Bo Garrett]

You will lose the white face but the major problem with the breed, as I see it, is not the lack of white face but the lack of size. The standard calls for a bird one pound less than a Minorca and I have not seen an 8 lb Spanish cock. I have Minorca hens that will weigh 9 lbs but my Spanish males are about 5 at best. My goal is to get the size back to standard first then work on the type and lastly the white face. Using Minorcas because all my research indicates that the Minorca was derived from the Spanish and they are the two largest in the Mediterranean class.
I have a pair of WF Blacks and a pair of WF Whites, the blacks have bred true and produced nothing but blacks, however the whites have produced about 50/50 blacks and whites, I have about 60 hatched and still have eggs in the incubator. I have pure Spanish, Spanish x Minorca and pure White Spanish, I have also hatched pure Minorcas as I like these birds and want to keep pure birds of the lines I have in them. Contact me in the fall, I may have a cockerel or two to spare.

Blessings,


Bo

 

[exop]

"Stole his flock"? that's just bizarre. As well as horrifying. What would someone hope to gain... the birds would be recognizably Jim's, I expect... unless it was a crazed idiot who stole them to eat.



I would like to strongly take issue with the idea of "increasing" size of the Spanish by crossing with a Minorca. By so doing, one is not creating a larger Spanish, but rather a Spanish-Minorca cross somewhere intermediate in size between its parent breeds. Once you have added the Minorca, you are not going to get rid of it simply by good luck and guesswork. There are visible traits like the white face and tail angle, but there is also the breed's personality, as well as all the internal invisible things that separate it from the Minorca and from other chickens, and of course there is its history. In other words, there is a lot more to breed identity than the Standard description, if you are trying for breed preservation and care about the continuation of the Spanish as such, rather than simply winning poultry competitions.



Grading your crosses back to Spanish will take many generations to get the Minorca down to reasonable levels.



The old fashioned way to increase breed size, and the way most large breeds were presumably developed in the first place, is to prioritize size, vigor and rate of growth when selecting each generation of breeding stock. If there's any life left in the Spanish - and I think there is - this would be the way to go. Very early on, fanciers started prioritizing face whiteness over other traits such as laying and size, and by the mid 1800s people were already complaining that the fancy had "ruined" the Spanish and hurt its size and productivity. It's tempting to get hung up on the face since after all, that is what the breed is named for - although it was once called simply "the Spanish" and earlier in its development, when it was known for its production of large white eggs, the white face was not so extensive. Focusing on vigor and size is something we all need to prioritize, although it is so tempting to look the other way when a weaker, more delicate specimen seems to have the whiter face (I have been there). Where the breed is at now is the result of almost 200 years of breeders looking the other way.

 

[flurry37 2001]

hi all, i have had bwfs bantams for about 3 years now thay are all that eggs non stop laying very good white faces i posted pics a while back, i think what i have seen i have very good fowl in the start on these.............mike

 

[RHRanch]

Maybe I can resurrect this thread. I am looking for White Faced White Spanish. I contacted every breeder I can find and no one has them anymore. Is there anyone here who has them and would be willing to sell me eggs, chicks? Thanks.

 

[critterbug]

I am very interested in this project. I to have some of Jim Bell's Spanish. I lost one hen and my only rooster, so I have two black white faced, one white white faced and one white/blue splashed white faced hen left. I've had no luck in locating a rooster in my area.

I thought that by crossing a WFBS to any other breed the white faced was lost? I have thought of putting one of my Spanish import Blue Andalusian roosters with them just to see what I would get. If a Minorca would give me a percentage of white faced I could hopefully locate a rooster to get me back going.

Christopher Cockrell

 

[Bantam Chase]

I was just given the pleasure, and pressure, of purchasing Sally Sunshine's flock of WFBS. I had a starter quad hatched from her eggs, and now have 4 lovely hens and a spectacular rooster. I've had chickens forever, but have never, ever, even looked at a standard. I want to do right by these guys, can anyone point me in the direction of the Standard, and help me get started?

 

[Bo Garrett]

Try www.amerpoultryassn.com you can purchase a Standard of Perfection from the APA store.