1 round worm found in poop, must I deworm? I try to be organic

[Preservation Acres]

Thanks. Is Wazine safe for chicks?

Also when which of these would you use to follow up after the Wazine?

http://www.tractorsupply.com/equine...equell-trade-dewormer-paste-by-pfizer-5023168

http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...ers/safeguard-livestock-dewormer-1-lb-2205981

 

[threehorses]

I think I read that you can use piperazine/Wazine17 on chicks over 6 weeks of age, which is very helpful if you get birds who have been on ground with adults. I had a friend who had birds that were quite young that did have adult rounds. Scary. BUT if you worm young, do 2-3 days of probiotics afterwards as their gut flora is just barely established and their immune systems aren't really strong until they're 4 months old.


Between the two wormers you gave, there are better options.

If you can do a paste, I'd go with either the paste ivermectin that also has pyrantel, or the cheaper version of the ivermectin as they truly are the same.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...ers/safeguard-livestock-dewormer-1-lb-2205981
<--- ivermectin
http://www.tractorsupply.com/equine...-gold-reg-equine-control-parasiticide-5018773 <--ivermectin with pyrantel

And safeguard also comes in a paste:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/equine...ormers/safeguard-equine-dewormer-25-g-5003451
You can mix that with water, honey, other treats, and crumbles to make a feedable and tastey wormer. I think the pellets don't often get picked up by the birds so you can't really tell if they're getting wormed or not.
The other alternative is the goat version (they're both 10%)
http://www.tractorsupply.com/livest...-wormers/safeguard-goat-wormer-100-ml-2226898 but it's a bit more expensive. Ask me if you need the mash mixture, or you can find it on the MSUCares website by googling "msucares poultry solutions".

Literally if I had to choose one of the ones you listed (if you had both at home) I'd go with ivermectin paste because of surety of dosage.

 

[Preservation Acres]

Perfect!! Thanks!

 

[VA from WV]

Quote:
First, your barnyard birds are genetically different from their wild cousins. Wild chickens either have a natural resistance to internal parasites that maintains an equilibrium or they die and hopefully don't pass susceptibility on to their offspring. This is a natural consequence of the difference between Natural Selection and Husbandry--humans select for traits that might not survive in the wild, because management makes it possible to retain desirable traits that might not contribute to overall success in the wild.

Note also that 'natural' does not mean either 'safe' or 'organic'. There are plenty of natural things that your chickens could get into that might well kill both worms and the host. You have to also do research for every species you work with, because different plants can either be benign, effective against a given threat, or deadly poisonous for the animal. Stuff I can give to sheep, I'd never give to a Llama, or could disrupt a pregnancy, and the Gods can only guess what it might do in a chicken, or whether eating the eggs is advisable.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
First, your barnyard birds are genetically different from their wild cousins. Wild chickens either have a natural resistance to internal parasites that maintains an equilibrium or they die and hopefully don't pass susceptibility on to their offspring. This is a natural consequence of the difference between Natural Selection and Husbandry--humans select for traits that might not survive in the wild, because management makes it possible to retain desirable traits that might not contribute to overall success in the wild.

Note also that 'natural' does not mean either 'safe' or 'organic'. There are plenty of natural things that your chickens could get into that might well kill both worms and the host. You have to also do research for every species you work with, because different plants can either be benign, effective against a given threat, or deadly poisonous for the animal. Stuff I can give to sheep, I'd never give to a Llama, or could disrupt a pregnancy, and the Gods can only guess what it might do in a chicken, or whether eating the eggs is advisable.

I think this is wonderfully stated. Barnyard birds are bred primarily for productivity, with some consideration for hardiness but not much. And there are tons of studies on parasites. It's very important to understand exactly what parasites do and how they work to truely understand which products will work and why.

I am a huge fan of natural stuff and its use - but being a huge fan, I find it's my responsibility to also know when to strip products of their super-product cape and just like them for what they can do, not expect them to do what they cannot. I've been using DE in my flock for over a decade and I've found that it is simply not a dewormer. Yes, it can help reduce populations, but it will not treat infestations. I wish it would, but it won't.

Rather than throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, use the natural products for what they're useful, and then realize when it's time to use something stronger. Talking about immune systems and the design of the body, birds who are infested with worms wouldn't purge - they'd simply die. If poultry were so savvy, they wouldn't spend all their time eating all the intermediate hosts of the parasites.

 

[Beekissed]

And why couldn't a person raise a flock that mimics the natural selection of nature? By not using commercial preparations for deworming and for medicating, one could conceivably develop a flock who also has developed resistance to parasites and diseases like a wild fowl would.

Doesn't anybody think in terms of years anymore? If I want to raise a flock more naturally, I am simply going to cull weaker birds who show signs of parasite infestation or ongoing illness or just plain undesirable traits for adequate survival. By encouraging the survival of the fittest, I could have a flock that has a better chance of doing well on an all natural regimen.

Meanwhile, treating these animals with natural dewormers like seeds(pumpkin), garlic, etc. won't allow their individual parasites to develop a resistance to a chemical and grow stronger, more resilient strains.

Rather than throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, use the natural products for what they're useful, and then realize when it's time to use something stronger.

I think using commercial preparations is the definition of throwing the baby out with the bath water....like a last resort, knee jerk reaction to the fact that some birds are not fit to survive independently without human intervention. I'm not talking about feeding and watering here....unless a bird has access to a wide range and running streams/ponds/springs, of course we are going to have to give some aid here....but adding commercially created chemicals to the mix is like giving the birds a crutch so they can limp around and reproduce more offspring who are also not fit to survive in this world.

Why not work to create a bird that is a survivor and a producer? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both? Is it because we got away from small, scrappy farm flocks and moved into commercial operations whose prime focus is on production and early maturity? Get 'em in, get 'em big, get 'em gone! Why do backyard flock enthusiasts have to follow suit and buy into the idea that the weak birds we have genetically crippled should be supported and coddled along so we can have MORE weak birds?

Sorry.....just something I'm passionate about and statements above are more a general, rhetorical theory and not directed at any one person.....

 

[freefly]

threehorses, I am really enjoying your post.
Thanks for your input

 

[dlhunicorn]

Quote:
First, your barnyard birds are genetically different from their wild cousins. Wild chickens either have a natural resistance to internal parasites that maintains an equilibrium or they die and hopefully don't pass susceptibility on to their offspring. This is a natural consequence of the difference between Natural Selection and Husbandry--humans select for traits that might not survive in the wild, because management makes it possible to retain desirable traits that might not contribute to overall success in the wild..

DITTO

Note also that 'natural' does not mean either 'safe' or 'organic'. There are plenty of natural things that your chickens could get into that might well kill both worms and the host. You have to also do research for every species you work with, because different plants can either be benign, effective against a given threat, or deadly poisonous for the animal. Stuff I can give to sheep, I'd never give to a Llama, or could disrupt a pregnancy, and the Gods can only guess what it might do in a chicken, or whether eating the eggs is advisable.

I have done quite a bit of research ON research done with "natural" (i.e. herbal) products... often the therapeutic dose is equal to or even exceeds the toxic tolerance level.​

 

[dlhunicorn]

Quote:

Why not work to create a bird that is a survivor and a producer? Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both? Is it because we got away from small, scrappy farm flocks and moved into commercial operations whose prime focus is on production and early maturity? Get 'em in, get 'em big, get 'em gone! Why do backyard flock enthusiasts have to follow suit and buy into the idea that the weak birds we have genetically crippled should be supported and coddled along so we can have MORE weak birds?

I understand where you are coming from however there is a simple answer :
> when they are our pets.​

 

[Phyll'sFarmFamily]

Thanx threehorses, VA from WV, & dlhunicorn

Great information!!!

Goodbye worms!!!