1 round worm found in poop, must I deworm? I try to be organic

[gsim]

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There are a number of parasite killers that are natural.

Some include:

Pau D'arco
Olive leaf extract
Black walnut tincture
Wormwood herb
Ground cloves

We take the bottom three once a week and have for 19 years, just in case we pick up a parasite. We do our dogs weekly too and they do not ever get worms. I never thought of it, but we may find ourselves treating our chickens the same way. I think that free range chooks might get more exposure to various types of worms, etc. For one thing, I have seen free-range chickens eat dog scat, and that can be a prime source of parasites. There is something to be said for bio-security and not letting anyone in your run but you and whoever is helping with the chooks. Many poultry hatcheries will not allow the public into parts of their operation for that reason alone.

There used to be lots of info on Dr Hulda Clark's web site regards parasites. She was the author of a book. Could be that a lot of formerly freebie info has been removed by her heirs since her death tho. (We have done her kidney, colon, and liver cleanses ourselves.)

That said, I would not hesitate to use what I could find rather than let the condition further sap her health. If you saw one, she is infested and should be quarantined immediately in my opinion because she is passing their eggs in her fecal matter and all the other chooks eat off of the same ground they share with her.

 

[Beekissed]

Quote:
My issue also, magenta. $20 might not seem like a lot to most folks but it adds up....and then you have to repeat the wormer somewhere down the line and it adds up again. If I can worm them more cheaply and with less chemicals, it's better for my flock and for my family. If I can grow it, forage for it, etc., this makes the overall picture of keeping a healthy flock a rosier one for me.

I use the same outlook in deworming the rest of my animals....if it can be done cheaper and, at the same time, in a healthier way, why not explore this avenue?

 

[chickenannie]

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It is not a financial issue for me, but I can empathize with your situation. I just used Piperazine wormer, considered the "least toxic" of the wormers, but I cannot stand the fact that I am throwing away their eggs. Since you have to worm them twice over a period of weeks, I am having to throw out a LOT of eggs. There are folks on here who say "oh, no problem, I eat the eggs right away" but they really don't know their information, and I would never eat the eggs right away. Also, I had typically been butchering extra roos, and since I've done research on Piperazine, it turns out that a small percentage of the Piperazine stays within the muscle meat, so now I'm wondering what the heck I'm going to do with the extra roos since I can't butcher them. Based on the fact that the Piperazine was lodged in the meat of the birds it was used on, the researchers decided to set a small limit on how much could be in the meat and still be safe for humans to eat. So now we are OK'ing humans ingesting the stuff yet i'm sure no one really understands what it could affect in humans especially in conjunction with any other ingested chemicals. After this experience I am really desperate for organic worming treatments that don't affect the eggs or meat. I feel like I've turned my flock into a non-useful, potentially toxic flock at this point.

by the way, you mix the wormer into the water according to directions and the birds drink the medication for their water supply -- you don't have to worm them individually.

 

[cocosandy]

Eprinex has not withdrawal time. You would have to make sure that its covering the worms that youre going for, but have a look at it.
Im wondering what the difference is myself, because I was told to use that or ivomec on my flock by the extension vet who did a necropsy for me recently.
I am still waiting for lab work because he said that there were "ascarites" (and not of a level that would kill the bird) but I cant figure out what exactly that is.
He had a very heavy accent so I think I may have heard wrong, tho he did spell it for me;-)
I have to try to get to the supervising vet but I am expecting the lab paperwork any day now.
Meantime I used eprinex but I dont trust the non withdrawal time...so I am feeding the eggs back to the birds for a couple of wks.
you can try cayenne, raw pumpkin seeds, vermex, DE and all that, but be aware that they are only preventative and not actual wormers.
I dont eat my birds so I cant comment on the meat...but you can cook and feed the eggs back to the birds....you can also hatch them!

oh, also as far as large flock worming, you may want to do a waterer wormer....I do the drip on at night when they are roosting. The eprinex drip on has a suggested dose of 1/2 cc for bantams and 1 cc for large birds, but its clear that even 2x the dose is not harmful, so if you hit one twice then its OK. I just did 25 young birds and I put them in boxes...but you can probably get them at night; hang a work light if you dont have lighting in your coop and use a sharpie and make a line on the foot of each one you do or some such....we use kids magic markers on parrot babies all the time, like, if someone buys one, to identify them.
I can certainly empathize with not having the money to treat your birds or not have the eggs, but this is part of doing business...you cant sell or use eggs from unhealthy birds...its inhumane to allow them to be devoured by parasites...so maybe you have to cut down the number of birds you have to an amount that you can afford in good times and bad.
If your'e in the egg business it seems that in a good year, a healthy hen makes maybe $75 in eggs, if everything goes perfectly. so you have to have a large flock to really make money on that alone. But like any business, you have to have some insurance money stocked away for emergencies, and because they are living things, you stand a chance of losing everything at any time. Thats why even small farmers have a varied output...and also why large, single production factory farms are bad. You have to be able to stagger production somehow or you are forcing your one product to produce no matter what.

Its prudent to worm your birds if you are selling the eggs...most people do it during the molt when they stop laying.
That's all I have to say about it....Ive had a horrible time this year with my pet flock and Ive lost some beloved birds to worms that got out of hand. Ive heard that worms that are really out of hand can get into the eggs. Ive never seen this but it would worry me if I was just losing birds to worms and not doing anything about it.
Good luck!

Melina

 

[chickenannie]

Ascarites is also known as "water belly". The birds get swollen with fluid in the belly and it's hard on their liver/heart functions, and they can die eventually. I think it's kind of like an obese person who's circulation and pulmonary system go bad (although it doesn't come from chicken obesity). I've heard so many different causes of it, including too much inbreeding of birds. If you do a search on here or on google you'll find a bit of info.

A poultry "expert" told me to just butcher all layers at 1.5 years old and that gets rid of the ascarites problem!!! He was so used to the industry standard that is their solution to the problem. But that's now how BYCers raise their birds -- many of us keep our birds for years.

I had 3 or 4 hens that had it and I had bought them from someone with a large (600-hen) flock. Their livers were shot. I've never had a problem since those.

 

[cocosandy]

really interesting...I had sent a turken who was 3+ yrs old to the extension vet at UConn...really sweet bird who was in great shape but fat as all get-out! The turken was obese according to the necropsy guy and had ascarites...hmmm...he said that was a parasite and to use eprinex or ivomec.
the other two I sent were more problematic in that they had neuro problems. he didnt see Mareks at all, and the advanced stage of the neuro problems would have shown mareks tumors...but, maybe its a mycoplasma?...We have to wait for the lab results. he didnt see anything...
This is the first time that my birds have had something that many of them have gotten. I currently have 2 showgirls with it and they are in a little enclosed dog house together. They eat and drink and sort of waste away neurologically....Ive done vitamins, antibiotics, worming....and thats how I found out about the worm problem....
Might be a mycoplasma....I just don't want to lose the whole flock...I also have 2 huge turkeys and 2 runner ducks....
thanks for the information. I think now that he was referring to the turken and not the neuro birds.

Melina

 

[chookchick]

I think there is some confusion between "ascarids" which is roundworms, and "ascites" . This is when the abdominal cavity fills up with fluid due to liver problems. It can be dealt with in most cases by draining off the fluid with a hypodermic needle, but in most cases it will recur until the chicken dies. If you know someone who has died of cancer, you may have experienced this...

Cocosandy--I know it is hard to throw away eggs, but as someone else pointed out--if you are feeding the eggs back to the hens, you are putting the medicine back in them, not much but a bit. Same reason you should not feed them to your dog or cat.

This is a great thread--there does not seem to be any easy (or cheap!) answers to the worm question.

 

[cocosandy]

Ah, well, the guy who did the necropsy had a strong accent...and it seems that I may have presented him with both!
I will find out...but that confirms further my feelings about worming. I had a sick bird who dumped a bunch of worms suddenly...they were round worms.
I wormed everyone in 3 phases carefullt and there was a huge dump of roundworms. I also lost a couple of young fantastic birds to the die off...it was all too much for them, even tho I did it slowly and over weeks.
I had only ever seen 2 worms, which is what got me on this track...my birds free range but I am a stickler about cleaning the coop every AM and I even scoop the poop all over the yard etc...Im sensitive to smells so I keep things very clean... But they are in the leaves around the fence turning over the soil and all and there are earthworms there...

I sent the guy 2 young birds that had the neuro problem which is hopefully not mareks or anything else like that, but more a nutritional deficiency brought on by worms causing malnutrition....Ive just never had so many birds get sick at the same time. its usually one....and its usually clear what it is.
And then the turken had the fat problem....she was older....and they are all pets, so I wouldnt butcher them anyway. I think thats fatty liver disease or some such...?

anyway, I understand about feeding the eggs back...but I have been told by many different professionals that its OK. At the point that I got to a couple of months ago, not many were laying anyway....previously, I just hatched the eggs!
I am not opposed to throwing them out or into the woods a long way away for the woodland animals to eat....far from my place (because I realized that if I didnt put out bird seed etc...that the raccoons didnt bother much)
The thing now is that Ive used Eprinex and there is no withdrawal period for that.
does anyone know anything about Eprinex? Ive been told that its a great all around wormer, but Im nto sure that it gets roundworms. My birds poo looks great for the first time in a while; no cecal orange stuff in it!
I do have a marans in the basement recovering from bumblefoot who has that diarrea...very bad wut some orangy stuff in it, but no blood....and she is thirsty all the time. I may have to worm her further...and the rest of them with Wazine again. I will throw the eggs out.
any ideas?? I do have something called wormazole that is broader spectrum.
Melina

 

[chickbird]

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(Guess I will need to figure the dose for the chickens from the horses or get the cat ivermectin.)

If you use the horse wormer, it's a BB sized or pencil eraser sized bit in the beak. Try to get the ivermectin with pyrantel for tapes, too.

Really ivermectin is NOT strong on birds. Neither is fenbendazole. There's a reason they call it "SAFEguard" and that is that it's very very gentle and safe. Ivermectin can be used wayyyyy over the usual dosage with a huge safety margin. They use it for people in third world countries who get worms from rivers, etc. It's much more gentle on the system to do a few times a year than worms are on the system.
Worms irritate the digestive tract, causing inflammation, and inflammation is often a precursor to inflammatory cells which are precursons to cancer. Inflammation starves the bird, disallowing it from digesting food, causing the immune system to lower, causing the bird to be greatly more likely to get diseases.

So really - four times a year - or all year of having parasites in the gut.......

THE SAFEGUARD IS THIS HORSE OR WHAT AND WHAT IS THE AMOUNT TO GIVE??? DO YOU REPEAT THE IVERMECTIN OR SAFEGUARD IN TWO WEEKS OR IS ONE TIME O.K. ALSO WHAT IS THE STRENGTH OF BOTH PRODUCTS TO LOOK FOR ON THE LABEL. YOU ALSO SAID WORMS CAN PASS IN EGGS...IF ANYONE HAD EATEN EGGS PROPERLY COOKED FROM CHICKENS WITH WORMS SHOULD THERE BE CONCERN OF HUMAN TRANSMISSION????THANKS

 

[Equus5O]

I read somewhere in this thread about roundworms passing into the eggs. Is that true?

This morning, I noticed a fresh poop right after letting the flock out of the coop. It was crawling with worms. I'm assuming I have a major infestation.

I haven't been to work since Sunday, and now have 4 dozen eggs in the fridge (from 15 hens; they average 11 or 12 daily). What's the possibility that the eggs may be bad? I can't imagine selling these eggs at work and then finding out that they had worms in them!

How long after dosing with Wazine must I discard the eggs? I'm still reading through everything to determine how long to dose, etc.