10 Cornish X eggs in the incubator!

[JessicaThistle]

Crazytalk, I really don't understand your argument using two entirely different breed of dogs. We are talking two Cornish X bred together. I don't get why what we call them is such an argument for you. The two parents are Cornish X which make babies that are a mix of the genes of the two parents just like any other species of anything.

A white person that is Irish having a baby with a white person that is British doesn't make their child any less white.

You must work for a hatchery that sells CX or something. I can't see any other reason why you would be so upset about this. I think it's a neat experiment for people that want to do it. I plan to continue to purchase my CX chicks. I'm perfectly fine with the hatchery chicks and am not really interested in breeding at this time. I really do respect those that want to take the time to breed and figure out how to make their own sustainable chickens if that is what they want to do and it feels right to them. They can call them whatever they want to in my opinion, it doesn't confuse me as to what they are.

 

[CrazyTalk]

I personally am hoping to accomplish is something that takes a few weeks longer to grow, and I am able to hatch myself without having to worry about meeting order deadlines and bringing in chicks from an outside source.

edited by staff

And that's a great thing. It sounds like a fantastic bird - it sounds like the bird I want.

But if we're breeding for different traits, with different goals in mind, and using a different genetic makeup, shouldn't we call the bird something different?

Every chicken is a line bred Red Jungle Fowl - but we don't call them Red Jungle Fowl anymore because they've got a different set of traits, and calling them all the same thing makes discussing a particular line more difficult.


Are you all familiar with sexlinked birds? For example, you cross a Rhode Island Red rooster with a White Rock (or really any white hen) and you get a set of chicks where the cockerels are all white, and the pullets are all the color that the rooster was. In this case, we call these birds Red Sexlinks. If you breed two Red Sexlinks together though, the 2nd generation won't show the same sex linking - you'll no longer just get white cockerels and red pullets - you'll get a little bit of everything. Is it right to still call these birds Red Sexlinks, when they really don't show any of the traits that define the product?

There are similar processes that are used in the breeding of Cornish Cross - to present specific traits in the parent generation so that every single bird in the sold generation will be heterozygous for a trait. You breed two of them together, and you're going to get a little bit of everything.

 

[duluthralphie]

Here we go again...

You will not necessarily eliminate every trait or even most the traits. Sex linked color is a neat little parlor trick and only works in the first generation because it fits on a simple Punnet square. It has no relationship to the traits/genes being passed down that are not sex link.

It has to do with the recessive and dominant genes and which genes control which traits. IF weight was sex linked I would agree with you 100%. The traits we want are not sex linked!

So tell me do you work for a hatchery? Is that why you are trying to have us call them something else so hard?


I think Jessica hit on it!

 

[aoxa]

Here we go again...

You will not necessarily eliminate every trait or even most the traits. Sex linked color is a neat little parlor trick and only works in the first generation because it fits on a simple Punnet square. It has no relationship to the traits/genes being passed down that are not sex link.

It has to do with the recessive and dominant genes and which genes control which traits. IF weight was sex linked I would agree with you 100%. The traits we want are not sex linked!

So tell me do you work for a hatchery? Is that why you are trying to have us call them something else so hard?


I think Jessica hit on it!

Exactly..

A red sex link x a red sex link = a straight run layer chick. The girls would still possess their mother's wonderful rate of lay, but they won't look the same in colour. Usually you'll get a lot of white looking chicks out of them.

Like I said, no one is going around selling their own experiment with the CX as Cornish Cross. Since they are our experiment, we can call them whatever we want. When people visit my farm, I proudly explain my project.

 

[CrazyTalk]

Here we go again... It has no relationship to the traits/genes being passed down that are not sex link.

It has to do with the recessive and dominant genes and which genes control which traits. IF weight was sex linked I would agree with you 100%. The traits we want are not sex linked!

Many of the traits that are selected for in Cornish Cross parent stock are sex linked. Many are present on only one side, and many are incompletely dominant. For instance, the dame line are genetic dwarfs - this is easily verifiable - check Avigen's or Arbor Acres, or Ross's or any of those guys catalogs. You can buy these birds.

Here's an article about the use of sex-link dwarfing in breeding cornish cross:
http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...924FC5FF8.journals?fromPage=online&aid=615912

Here's another one:
http://japr.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/4/305.full.pdf

This is something you'll have to breed out, as your birds are heterozygous for it, and some of their offspring will be homozygous and be dwarfs. It's used in the industry to produce better layers on the maternal side who need less food, and have less health issues , and lay more reliably - that's useful when you want to produce more birds, but not something you want showing up in the meat birds you're selling. Genetic dwarfism also delays the onset of maturity - the 2nd paper linked above notes that faster maturing birds have lower fertility rates.

Parent stock are also only about 10 lbs for the males, 7lbs for the females, and they don't grow as fast as the Cornish Cross - the rapid growth and huge size are a product of heterosis. There are several members on this forum who own broiler parent stock - again, you can buy these birds if you know the right people.

Read the papers. This isn't as simple as you seem to think it is.

 

[duluthralphie]

Many of the traits that are selected for in Cornish Cross parent stock are sex linked. Many are present on only one side, and many are incompletely dominant. For instance, the dame line are genetic dwarfs - this is easily verifiable - check Avigen's or Arbor Acres, or Ross's or any of those guys catalogs. You can buy these birds.

Here's an article about the use of sex-link dwarfing in breeding cornish cross:
http://journals.cambridge.org/actio...924FC5FF8.journals?fromPage=online&aid=615912

Here's another one:
http://japr.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/4/305.full.pdf

This is something you'll have to breed out, as your birds are heterozygous for it, and some of their offspring will be homozygous and be dwarfs. It's used in the industry to produce better layers on the maternal side who need less food, and have less health issues , and lay more reliably - that's useful when you want to produce more birds, but not something you want showing up in the meat birds you're selling. Genetic dwarfism also delays the onset of maturity - the 2nd paper linked above notes that faster maturing birds have lower fertility rates.

Parent stock are also only about 10 lbs for the males, 7lbs for the females, and they don't grow as fast as the Cornish Cross - the rapid growth and huge size are a product of heterosis. There are several members on this forum who own broiler parent stock - again, you can buy these birds if you know the right people.

Read the papers. This isn't as simple as you seem to think it is.

YOU failed to answer the question "Do you work for a hatchery and/or have a stake in our not calling CornishX offspring. CornishX ?



Now as far as the sources you cite, they are hardly what I would call impartial.


Rainbows or Red rangers or whatever name they go by use to be the result of cross breeding, now they are mainly offspring of other Rainbows or red rangers or whatever they are called.



Now beings I am not as well connected as you are in the chicken world I will have to be satisfied breeding the CornishX's and raising the CornishX Jrs.



BTW how many times do we have to say "we do not want birds that grow as fast as CX"s. We want huge birds that take a tad longer.


And A PS BTW... Your links are broken.

 

[Luvmybob]

Nice duluthralphie! Crazytalk is suspect...

I haven't had time to fix the chicken pen outside, pig broke his pen so that first, so they are still inside in my laundry room.
I feed them medicated chick starter and greek yogurt as a treat to help their healthy flora..

OK...NOW I came up with some names so Crazytalk can be happy....

Cornish X2 (as in squared) Yes, it's math, keep up Crazytalk..just cause I'm redneck don't mean I'm dumb.
Cornish XX
Cornish YUM
Finger licken
Fried Chicken
**** that's a big bird
Get in my pan
Get on my plate
Get in my belly
Chicken wings and baseball games
White Chicken
White chicken brown butt
Guess what chicken butt
Guess who chicken stew


OH and my favorite..... FREE!!!!!!!!!!! A little patience and a little work and I raise a healthy stock... OH Chicken Stock, another good name....


How about Cornish X...

For us free thinkers... Thank you so much for "getting me"

 

[duluthralphie]

**** that's a big bird

I think this one wins!

 

[lightchick]

I think it'd be cool if someone could mix a Cornish x with a Jersey Giant! Anyone tried that?

 

[Luvmybob]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

@ Duluthralphie......


lightchick I would do it in a heartbeat... I would love to get a Jersey Giant and try it but I'm not sure how to get one. JUST a FEW...
That's kinda the point I was doing here.. just beefing up the flock I already have so that I wouldn't have to buy anymore chicks

But good Idea...