2 Americauna chicks?

[billfields]

Quote:
I'm really not looking to get into the whole Ameraucana/EE debate. my Ameraucanas came from hatchery. Just that alone will lead to all sorts of assumptions about what they are or are not and whether they are or are not. You assume my bassets are purebreds with imperfections. But a whole lot of people automatically assume hatchery Ameraucanas are mutts. As far as I'm concerned both my dogs and my chickens have "flaws"---I would say special enhancements--- that will keep them out of a show ring (the biggest being having a owner that isn't about to put out the energy it takes to show 'em

)I understand people on Ebay claim their chickens are something the are not. People on Ebay claim everything they sell is something it is not. I've seen many conversations on this topic blow up and threads get closed down because someone sweeps in---and it can be from either side ---to "educate" someone who is not asking to be educated. Far as I'm concerned folks can call them whatever they want but I'll call my three Ameraucanas. (actually I mostly call 'em Abajah, Agnes and Adaline) just like I call my dogs basset hounds. other folks can cal theirs Easter Eggers, EEs Ameraucanas or Mudwamps. If you ask, my dogs are probably pet quality and my chickens barnyard quality but it only really matters if I am going to show 'em sell 'em or breed 'em for sell. Which I'm not. So it isn't an issue to me. and really, again unless I'm selling one of them to someone which I am not doing, it should not be a big deal to anyone else. I think it is a matter of understanding that different folks have different opinions and perspectives and leaving it at that. But have you noticed it only happens with Ameraucanas? People will talk about their Buff Orpingtons or Dominiques or Campines not being or not being show quality but the passion only seems to stir with Ameraucanas vs Easter Egger. (I would, by the way, call all 18 of mine no matter what the breed "barnyard quality"--even if one of the Wyandottes watches too much Glee and has visions of stardom, they all that that lazy owner flaw that'll keep 'em down on the farm

) Add to it breeder vs hatchery and feathers fly.

I think it's an interesting issue and I am happy to see this thread has remained one of the most civil conversations on this topic I've seen---which is kinda why I'm willing to take part in it. I like to hear what others think so long as nobody is getting hollered at, forcefully "educated" or flamed. So far I see a good chance of making it out with all my feathers!

Thanks to all y'all for remembering that most of us are here to just to enjoy our chickens and have a conversation or three.

Bill

 

[navasima]

So...my next question is....

What are EE's mixes of?

What makes an EE - the egg color or specific crossing of a limited list of breeds?

To clarify - in the dog world - a goldendoodle or a puggle ( and please, don't get me going on my opinion regarding the current "designer breeds" - just using the example) are crosses of particular breeds for a specified result. Are EEs specific crosses or really mutts - "Heinz 57s"?

BTW - What I've gotten from this thread so far - An Ameraucana is a purebred bird with specific breed standards. Because of what can be seen by the untrained eye as similar coloring in chicks - some sellers of chicks misrepresent Easter Eggers as being Ameraucana chicks. Beware of these sellers for if you are looking for a purebred Ameraucana you will get hoodwinked. Okay - fair enough - if I was looking for a Dalmation pup I'd be ticked if someone sold me a white pit pup with black spots (yes, yes, Dalmation puppies are born white - just bear with me). { For those who saw my post of Pingu - I'd be ripped if she was sold to me as an actual penguin!

} I haven't seen yet where anyone says that EE's suck - just that they are not Ameraucanas. Okay. Chardonay is not Reisling - you can love them both - but it's reasonable to have a preference. (...and right now I'd take a bottle, I mean glass, of either).

Another thing - mutt isn't always a derogatory term - it can be factually accurate. Always check context.

Cloverleaf - I must disagree on one point - breed standards do work like that for dogs and horses. The animal may differ in appearance, size and to a degree, shape depending on it's classification of pet or show standard, but it must meet the criteria assigned to that breed.

Yeah, so...um... What makes an EE?

 

[bloom_ss]

Quote:
I found this that may help explain a bit better than I can:

http://www.ameraucana.org/faq.html

What are Easter Egg chickens?

The Ameraucana Breeders Club defines an Easter Egg chicken or Easter Egger as any chicken that possesses the blue egg gene, but doesn’t fully meet any breed descriptions as defined in the APA and/or ABA standards. Further, even if a bird meets an Ameraucana standard breed description, but doesn’t meet a variety description or breed true at least 50% of the time it is considered an Easter Egg chicken.

From what I understand, this says that an EEs can be any chicken that possess the gene for laying blue eggs no matter what breed they have been crossed with. I also know that some EEs do lay brown or green or even pink eggs depending on what they were bred with. Usually an EE will have greenish legs and a pea comb, but some EEs have been known to have other leg colors and some even have straight combs. I just consider my EEs mutts, but I guess you could say that they were bred with a specific result in mind (the blue egg laying gene). Make sense?

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Quote:
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, that if it were a mixed breed dog that someone was trying to call a pure bred, people would have something to say about it.

Anyway, an EE from a private breeder is probably going to be an Ameraucana or Araucana cross to get the colored egg gene. Lots of people are making them to look a certain way, or for certain traits. Also, there are a lot of people making OEs (olive eggers) which will have a blue egg parent (Ameraucana) and a dark brown egg parent (usually a Marans, but also a Welsummer or other dark brown egg layer would work). The offspring lays a dark green "olive" egg. But what it boils down to is that an EE is "supposed" to carry the blue egg gene.

In a hatchery, you literally never know what you are going to get. I have had 2 EEs that laid brown eggs that looked just like the eggs from the Wyandottes I had at the same time. I still have one of them because she is my all time favorite hen. We assume that the hatcheries started with a blue egg layer parent and a brown egg layer parent, but over time as you breed the offspring together, you can lose that blue egg gene, since each offspring from the initial crossing only has one copy of that gene. As the offspring are crossed together, some of the next generation will have 2 copies of the blue egg gene, and thusly a bluer egg, and others will have no copies of the blue egg gene and will once again become brown egg layers. Also, the bluest egg EVER laid at my house was out of a hatchery EE.

Also, as you cross multiple generations of mixed breed chickens, sometimes you get closer to the type of one or the other, but more often further away if you aren't breeding back to a purebred specimen of one or the other.

eta: usually EEs from a private breeder will be a specific cross, but from a hatchery they are most likely a Heinz 57

 

[cashdl]

This is one of my EEs. This is Bert. She is an Easter Egger X Polish X Araucana. She will lay a georgous blue egg. She believes that if the camera is out, it is to have her picture taken.

As a True rumpless tufted araucana owner and breeder, I do somewhat take exception to labeling off color ameraucanas as EEs. I believe it perpetuates the misunderstandings floating around. I do not lable my araucana that don't meet the standard as EEs. That would be ridiculous and even more confusing. At least Bert has an EE beard and Muff. But I digress. A pure bred ameraucana that came from two different colors is still an ameraucana . They should be sold as a pet quality ameraucana.

EEs are mixed breed birds that usually have yellow skin and green legs. The biggest indicator that they are not ameraucana IMO. If people posted pics of their " americanas" and they had green legs then you can say, " that is and EE which is a mixed breed as evidenced by their green legs. Ameraucanas have white skin and therefore their legs will be white or slate (blueish black). If someone post a pic of their " americana" and it has slate legs but the body type is off or the plumage color is wrong, then say " Oh look, you have a nice pet quality bird there" and if asked you can gently point out the faults. By labeling everything EE you are confusing an already confusing issue.

When I have chicks that hatch without tufts ( 75% of the time) do I lable them as EEs because they don't meet the SOP? No, it is part of the breed to mostly be cleanfaced. When I hatch out a bird with a tail from two rumpless parents (10% of the time) , is that automatically labeled an EE. No, they are still purebred araucana. I have a couple of beautiful tufted partially tailed roo chicks right now, that would give someone a great start in araucanas because the tails can eventually be bred out. I would say that only 20% of what I hatch bears a resemblance to the SOP for the Araucana, and I am trying darn hard to meet the SOP. The rest are still Araucana, their eggs taste great and this fall freezer camp will be booked solid.

To me it sounds ridiculous to keep saying its an EE because it is the wrong feather color. What twaddle. I can understand sub standard, pet quality, how about hatchery quality. That is how other sub par birds are labled in other breeds. " oh you have a nice hatchery quality cochin there".

Which I am going to totally digress and say that my neighbor has what he ordered as a giant cochin roo from a hatchery, it is the prettiest Maran rooster I have ever seen. I have marans also, so while I don't show them ( they are from breeders) I know what a maran looks like. I have not corrected his thinking because its not hurting anything. He doesn't breed, show, or sell his birds. But hatcheries can get more than just ameraucana and araucana wrong.

Whew! I am done. I think.

Lanae

 

[cashdl]

Not quite done. Bert and her brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles, are a project of mine for my pleasure. I am trying to get rid of the tail, and add tufts while keeping the crest, muffs, and beards and blue eggs. How completely odd will they look.

All the birds are black. I have never gotten any other color no matter what color birds are in the breeding. So far I have one that has everything I want except the tufts. Next it goes into my tufted pen to get tufted babies hopefully.


Lanae

 

[dixiebeast]

idk but I LOVE Bert!! Such personality! As far as the breed thing...I got my first chicks from TSC...but they are not hatchery chicks...in our small area they bought from local breeders and had a smaller selection of breeds and fewer chicks because of it.I could have went to the bigger TSC but then I would have hatchery chicks.I did not know hatchery chicks were soo bad to some I just happened to be at that one and got lucky( I have BLRWs and RIRs)...I still feel the whole breed standard arguement is being overdone,I see some rude comments all the time over the whole EE thing and now I worry because my mom really wants Amerucanas but will she ever truely find them???They seem almost mythical now days!...heck my dog is a Mutt but that still doesnt stop the neighbors from spending time in the local store telling me how my rotti is gonna eat my teenage kids or keep him from being breed restricted from many places because for the most part he is a cute fuzzy rotti...who is a big CHICKEN! Hey he must be an EE too!LOL

 

[dixiebeast]

Oh and I want to see when you reach your goal...I WANNA BERT TOO!

 

[ChicKat]

I think that Cloverleaf makes excellent points in this discussion.

Also, since the Ameraucana is a relatively new breed to the standard, if I am correct -- it is necessary for people with expertise in Ameraucana to differentiate and establish the 'brand', kind of like protecting the trademark of a company. If people get sloppy with a trademark it can become invalidated.

Thanks for the insight and discussions. This is one of the best I have seen on the subject.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
Let me start by saying, Bert is FABULOUS!

The thing that gets me is that labelling a bird an EE is some sort of put down. It's simply a label applied to a bird that lays a colored egg - or hatched from a colored egg. Personally - I prefer the label "Easter Egger" over "pet quality" or "hatchery quality". And my egg customers have no trouble remembering "Easter Egger". I am quite happy to call my non-standard Ameraucanas and cross bred colored layers "Easter Eggers". Gives them some class in my opinion.