2 sick 10 week old Seramas

[EggSighted4Life]

I don't think all backyard flocks have Marek's.

I pretty much wish to agree with you.. And note that it was 8 years of raising chickens before I ever saw my first case and haven't seen one since then. But will have to defer to the experts on this one and now understand that like it or not it IS in my environment.

According to UC Davis... it is the MOST common cause of death in BACK YARD poultry in CA. Somehow I doubt that CA is any different than other states...
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/243637.pdf

This one says "The virus is present everywhere in the environment where chickens are raised."...
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/246963.pdf

That one also says "Marek’s Disease virus (MDV), a highly contagious herpes virus is considered endemic in the global ‘poultry environment."

Endemic definition.. (of a disease or condition) regularly found among particular people or in a certain area. IE- poultry environments in this instance.

Though I disagree with its' statement that "most if not all chicks in North America are vaccinated." It simply isn't true as most hatcheries I have seen do NOT vaccinate for MDV unless you request and pay more for it.

This one says "ubiquitous in the environment" (definition.. present, appearing, or found everywhere.)...
http://ucanr.edu/sites/poultry/files/246962.pdf

It cost $40 to have a necropsy done at UC Davis now. It did used to be free. They also were willing to allow use of their FED EX account in order to receive their discounted rate for shipping and then bill me for it. They are about 7 hours from me. Thanks for sharing your info.

I agree that when or if to cull at all is very much a personal decision and very often difficult to make even when you decide not to cull, because none of us want to see our animals uncomfortable and we have to hope for recovery and wanna give them a chance to fight but don't want them to suffer. This is one of the worst parts of chicken keeping. It's a good thing it isn't always this hard. For many of us we will be stressed the same as if it were actually one of our own kids that is ill.

@Clucken Crazy If these girls are going to try and recover, you might look up a chicken sling. It is easy to make and will help them to get off their legs and stretch them. Maybe even put a little weight and regain EVENTUAL control. I have seen some who did recover almost fully and live happily ever after. Hope the rest of your flock does well!

Hoping the best for these gals!

 

[Lolacan]

EggSightedFor4Life,

Marek's is such a controversial subject. Some people like you keep reading and stay up to date from the appropriate places. I wish everyone would. There's so much misinformation out there.

Most if not all Commercial chicken companies like those who produce chicken for meat do vaccinate. In the 80's, these places were losing 2/3 of their chickens to Marek's. Things changed with the Vaccine program but not as well as could be. These companies got their answers from the Amish who also practiced "all in all out" and thorough disinfection between groups.

Hatcheries are great. Yes you pay for Marek's vaccine. Most if not all the chicks sold are Marek's free because they hatch the eggs and sell day olds. There is no contact with other chickens at the hatcheries, just hatched chicks .

I think there's a lot of research lacking from back yard chickens because there's not really enough to make an impact and make it worth spending mega money on research when the profits from large companies support their research.

In general, I think BYC members probably know more about backyard Marek's than any other source based on experience as owners. I myself had a Marek's free flock for 2 years due to hatching my own or other's eggs. Then I broke my promise and bought a pullet from a breeder. A few months later I started losing chickens. At the time there was a group of us here that were having the same problem , and the group was growing. Yet vets and the "experts" were saying backyard chickens do not carry Marek's, only large corporations!

Backyarders inadvertently brought this problem on themselves by continually adding chickens to their flocks. Closed flocks would have saved a lot of people from this misery and hopelessness.

I wish everyone was like you and research from proper sources and not blogs or people that state they "cure" chickens of Marek's.

I can see it may be the #1 killer of backyard chickens. But I think that the professional research sites are using the word "global epidemic" amongst large commercial operations like raising meat for public consumption, not backyarders. There has not been enough research on our group. Like I said, we can't discount backyard chicken owners having the most experience with backyard chickens aside from virologists and cellular researchers.

Nice chattin with ya!

 

[Lolacan]

I have read that chlorine does not do a good job. The disinfector that does mention Marek's and produced for animals is called Virkon. A tub of it lasts for years. It's also the most effective on porous surfaces like wood than anything else.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

But I think that the professional research sites are using the word "global epidemic" amongst large commercial operations

Please understand I am still just having good conversation and not trying to be argumentative...

Anyways endemic means regularly found in a particular area and epidemic means an outbreak. But yes I agree epidemic would be more related to the large operations. Ah, which leads me to a NEW understanding as to WHY Marek's is NOT part of NPIP which didn't make sense to me for quite a while now... Because like you say.. the birds at those food supply chain/commercial operations are INDEED vaccinated against Marek's and therefor not considered a threat to our economy, if carried or spread by chickens because it is also know to be "in the environment" anyways.

I do understand that you didn't see Marek's until you bought that pullet (and probably where it came from), but it can be brought in by any wild bird at any time... or even already been at your place and not yet found a foot hold. I think you already know this though, you seem to have a pretty good understanding.

I do know that the chicks coming from hatcheries are clean from Marek's even if not vaccinated and that is one reason I have chose not to vaccinate. I might consider it in the future though, hard to say right now. But I rather have natural resistance than just diminished symptoms even though that may save a bird.

Yet vets and the "experts" were saying backyard chickens do not carry Marek's, only large corporations!

I really hate it when I have to disagree with someone's vet! They are supposed to be trusted resources with more information than we have. I guess not only science but also sharing of the available information has probably come a long way since then.

Yes, I'm an attention to detail type person.. sometimes to my own detriment. They produce so many studies one year and the within the next few years a study that says the opposite. So I always read the parameters AND their source of information. For example a lot of things they say may cause cancer, like pink sweetener, you have to read to see that they dosed the lab test animals (a peeve of mine ) with thousands of times more than what any person could actually consume in order to arrive at that result.

One frustration I have discovered is that I can buy chicks that were NPIP when they arrived at the feed store from the hatchery, but my LFS also accepts chicks from local breeders which I have no way of knowing about. And I know that isn't related to Marek's but rather other things that do pass through to the egg like MC/MG. So I only sell incubator/brooder chicks, but have discovered that my quarantine practice between the two is less than stellar. I collect my dishes every night and usually stick them inside the feed bag (where I get the chick feed too) to be filled the next morning. And even caught myself using the dust left behind by the others to feed the chicks since it was their right size! This is VERY recent and I'm glad I made the realization though I still have to work to correct it and may be too late to change any exposure the current brooder chicks might have already gotten. I'm learning something new all the time!

On top of that... I bought chicks that were in a brooder, only to find out later that they were actually broody hatched! That WAS very much a learning moment and now I know what kind of questions to ask before I pursue chicks in the future.

Can you please tell me... was it that pullet you bought that displayed the Marek's or instead another bird? Curious since I know the carrier may not be the one who succumbs. Also you state it was a few MONTHS later that you started losing birds. That would mean that IF it did come in on that pullet, that a 30 day quarantine would NOT have changed your outcome.

Definitely cannot discount personal experience of back yard chicken owners.

One more question.. when you talk about the possible disinfectant, what would you be disinfecting with it?

Yes, I can see the benefit of all in all out style. People who raise broilers will not likely ever have to treat for worms, mites, lice or that type of stuff the way I do by keeping birds year round.

I can tell you are on your way (I mean already are) to being a very helpful and productive BYC member!