2018 Newbie Chat!

[Anna Ranieri]

God’s answer was no when you moved into a community that doesn’t allow it.
Why would Jesus be on your side to break the law?
We must, as Christians, adhere to the laws of the land as long as the law doesn’t force us to sin against God.
Laws that forbid people who live in certain areas to have certain animals are not causing anyone to sin against God.
I’m sorry you’re going through this BUT you must see that the research was your responsibility BEFORE you even got the animals!
Otherwise you set yourself up for a situation that is caused by you and nobody else.
I see many threads on BYC where people get chickens KNOWING that they’re not allowed to keep them where they live!
It’s just mind boggling to me how many people feel that the rules don’t apply to them.
They convince themselves that because it’s something they want, love, “need”, like, etc that they are entitled to do what they want.
I know you kept asking your parents but since they are the owners they have the final say about their property.
That’s why I always hated renting; because I could never really have animals.
To tell your parents that they can’t see you, your daughter or grandson is very cruel!
This is not something Jesus would have us do.
Especially not over pets!
Our relationship with God and our human relationships are the only thing in this life that are Eternal.
I love animals and especially mine BUT I would never put my animals above my loved ones in any way.
It’s heartbreaking when people hold animals above human relationships that involve people who love us.
And before you say that if they loved you they would agree with you and let you keep them, that’s not how love behaves.
We are required by God to honor our parents.
I don’t think Jesus would bless any prayer or action or behavior where a person was cruel to other people in the name of their love for animals.
For the record, I am not speaking of cases of animal abuse or cruelty.

If it were me I would find a good home for them where I could go visit and they were well cared for.
OR move to a location that allows them!!

You have very much offended me, you are speaking of things you know nothing about, you don't know my family history nor do you know me. How dare you judge me, and make false accusations about me - I am not breaking any law, what I am talking about is not a law, keeping chickens, ducks, rabbits, goldfish etc is not against the law in this country, this is about an agreement made between the vendor and buyer of which the buyer and vendor signs, but in this case the vendor has also broken the agreement by giving a local school permission to have and keep 25 chickens, they also broke the agreement in many other situations but too many to list. I did not get animals knowing they are disallowed and there are hundreds of residence in this area who have chickens, why would I think there is a ban on anything when so many people have it? I only found out about this when I'd already had my birds for several months, I also found out through this situation that rabbits, guinea pigs, mice, fish, pigeons, spiders, terrapins, lizards, and just about every animal is not permitted in any of these properties inside or out and in fact the only animals allowed are, cats, dogs, and caged birds known as budgies, cockatoos etc.
You know nothing about me or my parents, I have given my parents far far more than they deserve and I still do - I am so offended and angered by your words - " and before you say if they loved you etc" that is not me, not something I'd say or think, there is no love between my parents and I but there is loyalty which all comes from me, I am the one they call on constantly whenever they are in need and that is very often, I am also the one who runs at their beck and call more so than the rest of my family. I have honoured my parents way beyond what they deserve all my life. And as for your "cruel to another in the name of love for an animal" I am flabbergasted - I have forgiven my parents millions of times for every wrong they have done me, my dad made me promises about this situation as did my mum and they have broken every one of them but still I forgave them. I am not cruel to them, and this isn't about my love and attachment to my birds. This is about them kicking me in the teeth one too many times. And do you not think that it was a tad unfair of God to not inform me of this supposedly not allowed to have area, which this same company has allowed others to have theirs and as for researching myself, how on earth would I even know such a thing existed when no one told me and all I see throughout this estate is chickens! If God so chooses not to allow me this that is His right. I have found a good sanctuary for them should I lose this, that is one of the first things I did before anything else. I wouldn't be able to see them ever again but I know from reports they would be safe and well kept there. And as for human relationships being eternal, I suggest you read your bible properly, only God is eternal, whether we head to hell or heaven, Jesus clearly stated all human relationship will cease, including marriage.
For one my parents are not loved ones of mine, my daughter and grandchildren are my loved ones, I would put no one nor anything before them - and for two, this is about me not you, just b'cos you would or wouldn't do something doesn't make you right - I don't and have never put or held any animal nor any person nor anything above any human relationship nor those who love me. Lets get this straight, I do not come from a loving family, i come from a broken, dysfunctional family whose parents are at the very heart of every problem, my loved ones, my family and the ones I would die for are my daughter and my grandchildren. You say it saddens you if a person puts an animal over a human, what difference does it make to you or your life if a person chooses to love animals more than or instead of humans, what difference does it make to you whether a person loves their family or not, why does it sadden you, its nothing to do with you what someone else does or doesn't love. My mother loves her dog over everyone and everything, she treats it as though its a child, I respect that's her choice, I even put my own birds aside for two weeks by locking them up in their run and taking away 5 hrs per day free range time from them, so I could go walk her dog while my dad was in hosp, b'cos she was worried about her dog and you accuse me of not honoring my parents - I couldn't give two hoots whether you or anyone does or doesn't love whoever, I couldn't care less whether you or anyone does or doesn't love your pets more than others. I would never have killed a bird or any animal just because I don't like it or it doesn't fit in but you did, it horrified me but I accept that's who you are and is your way of living. My parents have spent our (my siblings and I) whole lives hurting us, distressing us, hating us, resenting us, demanding of us and causing us heartache, sadness and grief, I asked them for one favour of which they made me promises and are now going back on their promises yet again. My daughter already limits the amount of time they get to see her son b'cos they are vicious, angry toxic people, she doesn't like to be around them either, half my family don't speak to each other anyway and they only reason and time my parents want any of us is when they need or want something done and it is usually me who ends up doing it so if I take myself away I don't take from them a loved one, I take from them a servant.
Oh and by the way, God sent His holy spirit to free Paul from prison, after the law stated paul was to be imprisoned indefinately, He also set Joseph free from prison, He set the Israelite's free from the Egyptians and the Christians broke the law when they refused to stop worshiping Jesus, I advise you to be very very careful b'cos if your country outlaws Christianity, what are you going to do....

 

[PNW_Peepers]

The Pucture of the coop..lol

I need to study it in action

Bahaha oh gosh sorry yes of course!
Here it is on 2/3 coops I have.

 

[llombardo]

Bahaha oh gosh sorry yes of course!
Here it is on 2/3 coops I have. View attachment 1605711View attachment 1605712

Do you ever get snow? Heavy rain? Joe does that toof hold up on the run?

 

[PNW_Peepers]

Do you ever get snow? Heavy rain? Joe does that toof hold up on the run?

We get mild amounts of snow in January and February. Nothing too crazy. We do get extreme amounts of rain and we get hurricane force winds. Two days ago we got four or five inches in a little over a day. We are classified as one of the wettest places in the whole United States. Somehow Roof has hung on strong through it all.

 

[llombardo]

@Anna Ranieri @ChooksNQuilts

I was waiting on Anna's response before I chimed in.

First I'm sorry about your family situation, there are lots of families in the same situation. It can't be understood unless you live it. Our family fell apart once my parents died. How I grew up, loyality was always there. Family sticks together. Sometimes that's hard to do with all the differences. It's really for no one to judge except the man upstairs. I can understand where @Anna Ranieri is coming from. There is pain there, there is anger, frustration and a battle within.

I personally am in a very tough money situation, my family seems to choose to ignore it or not believe it. I am a survivor and I will figure it out, but in the end all my animals are the ones here for me now and they will be there once I pull through. They really are all I got and I'm ok with that. They come first right now. Don't get me wrong, if my son needs me I am there for him. He was first in my life all the way until he got married and now he has his own life. I am still trying to accept that, but I get it.

Along the way I have learned not to judge. Everyone has their own battles and everyone must work through them in the least toxic way. You can honor and respect your parents or family, but you don't have to agree with them. Sometimes that can put a damper on things. No matter how toxic they are still family and every effort should be put forth to make it work as best as it can.

 

[llombardo]

We get mild amounts of snow in January and February. Nothing too crazy. We do get extreme amounts of rain and we get hurricane force winds. Two days ago we got four or five inches in a little over a day. We are classified as one of the wettest places in the whole United States. Somehow Roof has hung on strong through it all.

Is it metsl or plastic? I don't kniw if that can work on my run because of how wide it is. I'm trying to find the simplest cost effective way to cover it.

What do you think I can do? Can I get away with it only angled one way or do I have to do a reg roof? The run is like 20x25. As we all know weather is unpredictable here. We may or may not get snow and it can be heavy when it does come--like last week.

The aerial view

 

[Anna Ranieri]

@Anna Ranieri @ChooksNQuilts

I was waiting on Anna's response before I chimed in.

First I'm sorry about your family situation, there are lots of families in the same situation. It can't be understood unless you live it. Our family fell apart once my parents died. How I grew up, loyality was always there. Family sticks together. Sometimes that's hard to do with all the differences. It's really for no one to judge except the man upstairs. I can understand where @Anna Ranieri is coming from. There is pain there, there is anger, frustration and a battle within.

I personally am in a very tough money situation, my family seems to choose to ignore it or not believe it. I am a survivor and I will figure it out, but in the end all my animals are the ones here for me now and they will be there once I pull through. They really are all I got and I'm ok with that. They come first right now. Don't get me wrong, if my son needs me I am there for him. He was first in my life all the way until he got married and now he has his own life. I am still trying to accept that, but I get it.

Along the way I have learned not to judge. Everyone has their own battles and everyone must work through them in the least toxic way. You can honor and respect your parents or family, but you don't have to agree with them. Sometimes that can put a damper on things. No matter how toxic they are still family and every effort should be put forth to make it work as best as it can.

Thank you, I appreciate your understanding. I'm sorry for you that things are this way, I can relate to the lack of money side of things, we pretty much live hand to mouth ourselves and have a new baby on the way too, so money very tight for us, but like you we are survivors and we get by although often so difficult.
All my family would tell you this, my parents are and have been burdens to us all our lives, my mother even admits it but still does nothing to try change her ways. I've put up with it all, we all have but on this occasion they have crossed the line, it was my dad who told me not to get rid of the birds and to tell them to 'get stuffed!' it was my mum brushing it off saying 'pfft what can they do that can't do nothing, just ignore them' however now they realise its they who will have to go to court should it get that far, they've changed their tune. We all assumed it would be me who'd be taken to court b'cos they are my birds, but it wouldn't be b'cos I'm not the owner of the property

 

[Anna Ranieri]

What exactly did the document that is good for 80 years say? If you were to purchase this property would that agreement transfer from your parents to you as a new owner of would the agreement be null and void?

If by any chance this agreement is null and void with new ownership, is there a way to transfer ownership on paper? It may sound like a lot to go through but I'm thinking you may now need a permanent solution. Other option is to possibly move. Both are very extreme.

I hate that you don't know who it is. Telling them the food is left outside may not have bee a good idea. I know what you are saying and why you did it, but they may hold that against you.

I'm saying a prayer for all of you and hope this goes away soon.

Thank you.
The document I have is a copy of the property register which was obtained from the government land registry. There are several things listed but the guy highlighted the ones which go to this situation. Originally it was the 'not to keep any animals or livestock except usual domestic pets such as cats, dos, caged birds. - However my argument is that times have changed since this covenant was constructed in 1980, people now consider rabbits and goldfish as domestic pets, but according to this, they too are livestock. However more and more people are at keeping rabbits, chickens, ducks, etc in their back yards and have them as pets.
The other is, not to do anything to annoy neighbours, apparently my birds annoy who ever complained and now these people are claiming there are vermin.
The guy they sent turned out to be quite nice, kept apologising for being unable to help although he did help a lot, he told us a few things he shouldn't have and he said the same as you about the outside food and didn't write it down, I've removed it all now, I just put out their treats while I'm out there and will sweep up any uneaten from now on.
I don't have the money to buy this place or any place really. Moving isn't an option b'cos my daughter and grandson live with me and wouldn't be good for either of them to move. We discussed me moving and she taking over the tenancy but she doesn't want me to go, my daughter suffers with a long term illness, she's is pregnant, she and her partner split, there is no chance of reconciliation, she needs me with her to help her and help look after my grandson - so unlike that of which I have been accused of, means if I can't have my birds here, I can't have them at all.

 

[Anna Ranieri]

Is it metsl or plastic? I don't kniw if that can work on my run because of how wide it is. I'm trying to find the simplest cost effective way to cover it.

What do you think I can do? Can I get away with it only angled one way or do I have to do a reg roof? The run is like 20x25. As we all know weather is unpredictable here. We may or may not get snow and it can be heavy when it does come--like last week.

The aerial view

View attachment 1605773

This is a lovely set up, you are very talented and brilliant at building

 

[CannedMonster]

You have very much offended me, you are speaking of things you know nothing about, you don't know my family history nor do you know me. How dare you judge me, and make false accusations about me - I am not breaking any law, what I am talking about is not a law, keeping chickens, ducks, rabbits, goldfish etc is not against the law in this country, this is about an agreement made between the vendor and buyer of which the buyer and vendor signs, but in this case the vendor has also broken the agreement by giving a local school permission to have and keep 25 chickens, they also broke the agreement in many other situations but too many to list. I did not get animals knowing they are disallowed and there are hundreds of residence in this area who have chickens, why would I think there is a ban on anything when so many people have it? I only found out about this when I'd already had my birds for several months.
You know nothing about me or my parents, I have given my parents far far more than they deserve and I still do - I am so offended and angered by your words - " and before you say if they loved you etc" that is not me, not something I'd say or think, there is no love between my parents and I but there is loyalty which all comes from me, I am the one they call on constantly whenever they are in need and that is very often, I am also the one who runs at their beck and call more so than the rest of my family. I have honoured my parents way beyond what they deserve all my life. And as for your "cruel to another in the name of love for an animal" I am flabbergasted - I have forgiven my parents millions of times for every wrong they have done me, my dad made me promises about this situation as did my mum and they have broken every one of them but still I forgave them. I am not cruel to them, and this isn't about my love and attachment to my birds. This is about them kicking me in the teeth one too many times. And do you not think that it was a tad unfair of God to not inform me of this supposedly not allowed to have area, which this same company has allowed others to have theirs and as for researching myself, how on earth would I even know such a thing existed when no one told me and all I see throughout this estate is chickens! If God so chooses not to allow me this that is His right. I have found a good sanctuary for them should I lose this, that is one of the first things I did before anything else. I wouldn't be able to see them ever again but I know from reports they would be safe and well kept there. And as for human relationships being eternal, I suggest you read your bible properly, only God is eternal, whether we head to hell or heaven, Jesus clearly stated all human relationship will cease, including marriage.
For one my parents are not loved ones of mine, my daughter and grandchildren are my loved ones, I would put no one nor anything before them - and for two, this is about me not you, just b'cos you would or wouldn't do something doesn't make you right - I don't and have never put or held any animal nor any person nor anything above any human relationship nor those who love me. Lets get this straight, I do not come from a loving family, i come from a broken, dysfunctional family whose parents are at the very heart of every problem, my loved ones, my family and the ones I would die for are my daughter and my grandchildren. You say it saddens you if a person puts an animal over a human, what difference does it make to you or your life if a person chooses to love animals more than or instead of humans, what difference does it make to you whether a person loves their family or not, why does it sadden you, its nothing to do with you what someone else does or doesn't love. My mother loves her dog over everyone and everything, she treats it as though its a child, I respect that's her choice, I even put my own birds aside for two weeks by locking them up in their run and taking away 5 hrs per day free range time from them, so I could go walk her dog while my dad was in hosp, b'cos she was worried about her dog and you accuse me of not honoring my parents - I couldn't give two hoots whether you or anyone does or doesn't love whoever, I couldn't care less whether you or anyone does or doesn't love your pets more than others. I would never have killed a bird or any animal just because I don't like it or it doesn't fit in but you did, it horrified me but I accept that's who you are and is your way of living. My parents have spent our (my siblings and I) whole lives hurting us, distressing us, hating us, resenting us, demanding of us and causing us heartache, sadness and grief, I asked them for one favour of which they made me promises and are now going back on their promises yet again. My daughter already limits the amount of time they get to see her son b'cos they are vicious, angry toxic people, she doesn't like to be around them either, half my family don't speak to each other anyway and they only reason and time my parents want any of us is when they need or want something done and it is usually me who ends up doing it so if I take myself away I don't take from them a loved one, I take from them a servant.
Oh and by the way, God sent His holy spirit to free Paul from prison, after the law stated paul was to be imprisoned indefinately, He also set Joseph free from prison, He set the Israelite's free from the Egyptians and the Christians broke the law when they refused to stop worshiping Jesus, I advise you to be very very careful b'cos if your country outlaws Christianity, what are you going to do....

wow... I guess I should've just kept my mouth shut huh
How was I supposed to know about your relationship with them?
You live in their house. I assumed that meant it was a good relationship.
I'm very sorry I offended you.
You are absolutely right...I don't know you. None of us know each other.
I understand your anger but why would it even matter to you what I think about anything?
Why would you let it upset you?
You shouldn't. I am nobody to you. Just some lady online.
All of this is nobody's business but yours but you posted about this situation on a public forum and I responded to it based only on what details there were at that time.
I also gave my opinion. I gave it in a very incautious and flippant manner.
Which has offended you. My opinion was based on few details.
I should have asked you more questions or sent you a PM to get more facts and a clearer idea of the whole picture.
Now that you have explained, I can understand why you said it.

It’s heartbreaking when people hold animals above human relationships that involve people who love us.

"...people who love us." I meant this as the key phrase.
I'm sorry I assumed your parents love you and treat you well.
I made an assumption. I was wrong.

What animal did I kill? Loki and Conan? I can't keep multiple human aggressive roosters.
I raise them for meat, not just eggs. I don't support factory farming but I do support homestead farms and self sufficiency. My mistake was naming them before I knew their sex and before I had created a plan for excess/aggressive cockerels.

If everyone else, including the school, has chickens then why are you worried about it?
They have to take everyone to court not just one person. Maybe that's why they haven't yet?
I mean, that's only fair. They can't just pick on you.
I'm sorry I don't understand.
If it's not a law then it's some sort of agreement?
I thought it was a law because you got so upset about it and say they might make you get rid of them and talk about them taking you to court or something.
What kind of power do they actually have?
It seems odd but I guess maybe it's like a HOA here in the US. Where the Homeowners
Association creates policies the home owners who live there have to abide by.
Some HOAs are very strict (they have monthly meetings and employees and go over things people are doing) while others are nothing more than a passing mention in the deed.

I admit that I can offend people. I am a very blunt and forward communicator.
I offer my apologies for that.
All of this could have been exchanged in a PM (personal message) instead of publicly.
I admit that it was very bad form for me to write it here instead of a PM.

Sorry about your parents and their treatment of you. It sounds like they're now putting pressure on you.
I've had toxic relationships too. I broke ties with those individuals (sometimes only for a time) because I realized they weren't changing and it would cause damage to me and/or my son.
I'm not the kind of long-suffering person that will allow myself to be treated badly when I can walk away. I used to. But my life was chaos.
I didn't want my son observing them and getting ideas that because I put up with it that made it okay.
I believe we teach people how to treat us by what we allow them to do.
In other words, if I allow it they'll probably keep doing it.
Boundaries are important to me to keep relationships balanced and healthy.
That's just my philosophy.

And you have taught me that I went completely overboard with you.
I won't do it again.

I pray Jesus will bless you, your daughter & grandson and that He will bless your fight for your animals.
I hope you can forgive me for reacting to your post in such a presumptive way.

I think I should take a break from this thread for a while.
Or maybe just stay off of it altogether.

Again my sincerest apologies!

P.S. To send a PM just click on the "Inbox" with the letter icon.
P.P.S. If my country outlaws Christianity I will do what I have to do. All the way up unto death. I'm not worried about it. I worry about very little.