3 year old "bulge" under hen's vent is now growing and changing

[Fluffy_Feathers]

My hen, Lucky, is a 4 year 10 month old Road Island Red hen. In December of 2018, she started molting, revealing a strange bulge/growth under her vent. I made a thread about it but frankly, I didn't know what I was doing and wasn't very cooperative in trying to get better information about it for the experts here (thanks dumb 16 year old me). I watched it to see if it changed but nothing did. I stopped worrying about it, and eventually kind of forgot about it since it didn't seem like a problem really.
2018


In December of 2020, She went through a heavy molt and I once again noticed it. Going mostly off my memory since my 2018 pictures were rather poor (thanks again me), it seemed as though the bulge hadn't changed much, or at all. It still didn't seem concerning, and I wasn't worried, but I did want answers. I made another post and was able to get some suggestions. One in particular stood out to me; a hernia. While not completely confident in that answer, it made the most sense to me. Here's that thread.
2020


Today, December 2021, she is once again molting and the bulge was once again revealed. But this time it was very noticeably different, and I am now concerned. It has grown, and it looks like has gotten more red. The two pictures at the bottom of the two columns below are more like what the color is like. It's not hot. It's warm, but not much warmer than the rest of her body. The texture of it is a little weird. It sticks out so I can move it around a little bit. It's not stiff, and it feels kind of... rubbery? Like, if it is fluid filled it is quite full like a blister. It's just not exactly soft, it keeps it's shape. Doing some research on hernias I've found out that hernias frequently get bigger. Is this what could be going on here? It just looks a little weird, do hernias look like this, or are they more uniform?
2021


Looking back and comparing my 2018 and 2020 photos with fresh eyes, the part circled in red seems to be new, but I can't be sure. That part also seems to to be the part that has grown significantly. Almost seemingly overtaking the rest of the bulge. Like, that part has gotten bigger and the rest smaller. Or maybe the rest hasn't changed, it's just being enveloped?


Something that I would like to draw some attention to is this dot. For some reason the first thing that pops into my head is a squamous tumor. I don't know much about them at all, but I know they kind of... eat away at the flesh and look kind of like gross crusty open wounds. Could this be the beginning of that? Could it have grown, went dormant, and is now active. Or at least accelerating it's speed? Or is this not at all what a squamous tumor does or looks like? I don't think that's what it is, I'm just throwing out ideas. Seems more like blister-ish to me than tumor-ish. But I don't know.


Any help is appreciated!

 

[xiao]

My hen, Lucky, is a 4 year 10 month old Road Island Red hen. In December of 2018, she started molting, revealing a strange bulge/growth under her vent. I made a thread about it but frankly, I didn't know what I was doing and wasn't very cooperative in trying to get better information about it for the experts here (thanks dumb 16 year old me). I watched it to see if it changed but nothing did. I stopped worrying about it, and eventually kind of forgot about it since it didn't seem like a problem really.
2018
View attachment 2937976View attachment 2937977View attachment 2937978

In December of 2020, She went through a heavy molt and I once again noticed it. Going mostly off my memory since my 2018 pictures were rather poor (thanks again me), it seemed as though the bulge hadn't changed much, or at all. It still didn't seem concerning, and I wasn't worried, but I did want answers. I made another post and was able to get some suggestions. One in particular stood out to me; a hernia. While not completely confident in that answer, it made the most sense to me. Here's that thread.
2020
View attachment 2937994View attachment 2937995

Today, December 2021, she is once again molting and the bulge was once again revealed. But this time it was very noticeably different, and I am now concerned. It has grown, and it looks like has gotten more red. The two pictures at the bottom of the two columns below are more like what the color is like. It's not hot. It's warm, but not much warmer than the rest of her body. The texture of it is a little weird. It sticks out so I can move it around a little bit. It's not stiff, and it feels kind of... rubbery? Like, if it is fluid filled it is quite full like a blister. It's just not exactly soft, it keeps it's shape. Doing some research on hernias I've found out that hernias frequently get bigger. Is this what could be going on here? It just looks a little weird, do hernias look like this, or are they more uniform?
2021
View attachment 2938004View attachment 2938002View attachment 2938005View attachment 2938007View attachment 2938009

Looking back and comparing my 2018 and 2020 photos with fresh eyes, the part circled in red seems to be new, but I can't be sure. That part also seems to to be the part that has grown significantly. Almost seemingly overtaking the rest of the bulge. Like, that part has gotten bigger and the rest smaller. Or maybe the rest hasn't changed, it's just being enveloped?
View attachment 2938013

Something that I would like to draw some attention to is this dot. For some reason the first thing that pops into my head is a squamous tumor. I don't know much about them at all, but I know they kind of... eat away at the flesh and look kind of like gross crusty open wounds. Could this be the beginning of that? Could it have grown, went dormant, and is now active. Or at least accelerating it's speed? Or is this not at all what a squamous tumor does or looks like? I don't think that's what it is, I'm just throwing out ideas. Seems more like blister-ish to me than tumor-ish. But I don't know.
View attachment 2938015

Any help is appreciated!

Im not experienced with this but here are some similar post to help you.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/large-bald-plucked-bulge-beneath-vent.1439434/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bulge-beneath-cloaca.1482443/

 

[Lenny loves chickens]

Following...I am very interested

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

Following...I am very interested

I am too lol, but I'm thinking that nobody really has any other ideas. Which isn't surprising. I've only seen 1 other instance like this here and nobody really knew then either. rk800 actually linked that one.

I'm thinking that when she eventually dies, and I have her intact body, I can cut it open and see what it is exactly. That's the only way to know for sure

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

@MarthaChicken , in July you made a post about one of your hens with a large bulge under her vent (and rk800 actually linked it so that made me remember). I replied comparing my own hens bulge to yours, and suggested it could be a hernia. I'm wondering how your chicken is doing, and has the bulge changed or grown at all?

I hope she is doing well, but the reason I wonder if there are any updates with your hen is that they may lead to answers, since your story is the only thing I've found that is the closest to mine.

 

[LaFleche]

This almost looks like some kind of fatty tumor to me.

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

This almost looks like some kind of fatty tumor to me.

Out of curiosity I took my flashlight and shined it up next to the mass, as if I was candling an egg, to see if I could see anything in it. It was just red, I didn't see anything solid or dark in color. Light shone through it. Doing some research i found out that is called transillumination. I wondered if a lipoma, as you suggest, and a hernia would show different transillumination.

The closest thing I could find to a hernia that would be in that area on my chicken is an inguinal hernia. This is when a bit of a male's intestines move down into his scrotum. I figure if this is a hernia on my chicken, I assume it would also be intestines. So while the hernia is technically different, the contents are the same. I could only find one source that said whether inguinal hernias transilluminate or not, and it said that they usually do not. It was from hawaii.edu so that seems pretty trustworthy.

Lipomas, on the other hand, do transilluminate.

So if I'm right, if Lucky has a hernia it would not transilluminate. But it did. You may be right that it is a fatty tumor, or it could be fluid filled.

During my research I stumbled upon the slip sign, where you rub your fingers off the edge of the tumor and the tumor will slip out from under your fingers. I tried that, but I couldn't really feel any slipping. Her tumor is weird shaped and is a bit hard to do that with so maybe that's the problem. Or maybe there are different kinds of fatty tumors that don't have a slip.

So we've possibly narrowed it down to a fatty tumor or a cyst maybe?

 

[LaFleche]

Out of curiosity I took my flashlight and shined it up next to the mass, as if I was candling an egg, to see if I could see anything in it. It was just red, I didn't see anything solid or dark in color. Light shone through it. Doing some research i found out that is called transillumination. I wondered if a lipoma, as you suggest, and a hernia would show different transillumination.

The closest thing I could find to a hernia that would be in that area on my chicken is an inguinal hernia. This is when a bit of a male's intestines move down into his scrotum. I figure if this is a hernia on my chicken, I assume it would also be intestines. So while the hernia is technically different, the contents are the same. I could only find one source that said whether inguinal hernias transilluminate or not, and it said that they usually do not. It was from hawaii.edu so that seems pretty trustworthy.

Lipomas, on the other hand, do transilluminate.

So if I'm right, if Lucky has a hernia it would not transilluminate. But it did. You may be right that it is a fatty tumor, or it could be fluid filled.

During my research I stumbled upon the slip sign, where you rub your fingers off the edge of the tumor and the tumor will slip out from under your fingers. I tried that, but I couldn't really feel any slipping. Her tumor is weird shaped and is a bit hard to do that with so maybe that's the problem. Or maybe there are different kinds of fatty tumors that don't have a slip.

So we've possibly narrowed it down to a fatty tumor or a cyst maybe?

How is your hen doing by now, do you notice any changes in her bulge?

 

[Fluffy_Feathers]

How is your hen doing by now, do you notice any changes in her bulge?

Thanks for asking. I just checked and there has been no change. It feels the same, looks the same, the same size, etc. The only thing that might be different is it looks a bit more matte than shiny, but that could just be dryness from these single digit temps. slow growing I guess. It took years for me to notice any definable differences, from when I first discovered it to now. Let's hope it stays that way.

Otherwise, she is still great; acts completely strong and healthy.

 

[Lenny loves chickens]

Thanks for asking. I just checked and there has been no change. It feels the same, looks the same, the same size, etc. The only thing that might be different is it looks a bit more matte than shiny, but that could just be dryness from these single digit temps. slow growing I guess. It took years for me to notice any definable differences, from when I first discovered it to now. Let's hope it stays that way.

Otherwise, she is still great; acts completely strong and healthy.

Have you thought buuuut doing surgrey to see what it is? I know some people dont have strong stomachs but that's whhgjghat I would do lol