3 year old hen with a strange breathing problem, please help

[TropicalChickies]

Hello,
I've been keeping a small flock of chickens for a few years, so I'm familiar with most common problems, but now I'm stumped.

My three year old, Cleo, is mid way through her molt. She is a tough girl, top of the order, super smart and very affectionate. She lays beautiful big eggs too. I hope someone has an answer for this.

A few weeks ago I picked her up to check her for mites or fleas. I was holding her lightly under the belly like I usually do checking her tail and vent. Her skin was turning purple! I quickly put her down and she staggered a bit, then caught her breath, and was fine. I figured I had somehow put pressure on her air sacs and forgot about it.

But now there seems to be some sort of pressure inside her body -- when she roosts, she starts breathing hard with her beak open, making a strange squeaking sound. It doesn't sound anything like mycoplasma or bronchitis. It's not a rattling or wheezing -- it's a squeak. So she's sleeping in a box in the "hospital unit."

(She doesn't have gapeworm. I checked her throat and she's not stretching her neck or shaking her head.)

During the day she's ok. Goes around pecking, takes little rests. After all, she is three -- and going through a molt, so she's a little tired. But she eats very well, drinks water, and has normal poop.

Also when I pick her up, if I hold her for more than thirty seconds or so, she turns purplish.

Could this be air sacculitis?

(please don't tell me to take her to a vet. We live in a rural area in a South American rainforest. My neighbors can't believe I don't turn my chickies into soup after their first laying season. No vet would treat a chicken here)

A little background that might help. The weather has been very hot. I provide cool shady areas and fresh water, but it's hot. Also, in the tropics, we get sticktight flea infestations. Our property has so many wild birds, there's not much I can do except be ruthless with permethrin in the coop and areas the chicks hang out. Because Cleo has a featherless neck and now she's molting, the fleas were getting at her the worst. I slather all the girls with Vaseline to kill the fleas on their combs and wattles, but Cleo was getting swarmed, so I gave her a Permethrin dip -- now she's clear but could be a little anemic from the fleas. So I'm giving all the girls a vitamin and electrolyte in their water and Cleo gets a scrambled egg every other day to get her some extra protein.

So there's a lot going on: she's molting, getting over a flea infestation, plus I dewormed everyone two weeks ago (two other girls were showing signs of a heavy worm load, foamy yellow poop and lethargy.) Plus the heat. But the weird squeaking and problem breathing only when roosting? And turning purple when held?

Does anyone have a similar story? Or advice? I have doxycycline which is good for respiratory problems. Should I start her on it?

Thank you for reading all of this. Really appreciate any response!

 

[TropicalChickies]

I'm glad to hear she's improving!

Good catch on the other hen too.

Sounds like you face some challenges with your climate, but you are winning!
Thank you for the update, keep me posted on how everyone is doing.

Hi, here's a little video of Cleo first thing this morning after her Nyastin dose. She's happy, active, and hungry (and pooping very normal poops) but crop is still a bit squishy and her head smelly like sourdough.

Do you think it's worthwhile to try an Epsom salt flush? I'm suspecting she might have a bit of something festering/fermenting in there.

I have massaged her crop thoroughly early in the am and don't feel anything hard in there. I understand there can always be underlying issues, but she seems so robust otherwise -- still hoping this is a temporary problem due to several challenges presenting at once: climate, eating rotten bananas, molting, and fleas. The fleas are under control, I've checked everywhere on the land for fallen fruit, her new feathers are growing in beautifully. Even the weather has cooled off a bit.

Tomorrow is her last day of Nyastin and I'm concerned that the yeast--which is obviously still present-- will start multiplying again when I stop the medication.

Which is is why I'm wondering about the Epsom salt flush to detox her crop and digestive system.. It seems safe enough to try. She's pretty cooperative with the syringe in her beak and I could do it little by little.

Please let me know what you think. She doing so well other than this crop thing, bossing the flock around, singing and chatting.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Welcome To BYC

If you feel Cleo's abdomen below the vent between her legs, does it feel bloated or full of fluid, tight like a drum?

Crop emptying overnight?

I'm not a vet nor expert, but your description, I would take a guess she's got some fluid accumulating in the abdomen. This can cause some of the symptoms you are seeing. Pressure on the abdomen from being held and pressure from roosting.
As for what's causing it...could be reproductive and/or organ failure.

If you feel fluid in the abdomen and she's in distress, then you can try draining it to give some relief, but it's not a cure, it's a supportive care measure. Some have success with giving a detox, you can check that out in this link. Both a video of draining and the instructions for detox are in the same link https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/advanced-stages-of-bumblefoot.1328711/post-21682693

Again, it's just a guess on my part that this may be her problem. I've had hens that had reproductive problems with fluid and they would become distressed with being held and in the last stages when they roosted. The would end up not roosting and choosing to sleep on the floor to give themselves some relief, but their breathing did become gargled at times. With fluid, reproductive issues, cancer, etc. sometimes the crop doesn't always empty well either.

The Doxy may not hurt, but you are right, it's more effective for respiratory illness, so it may not help with her symptoms.

Since you do need to treat her and stay on top of the fleas, wow what a battle you have on your hands! I would not hold her for treatment. Opt to stand her on a table so you can work on her and let her keep her legs under her. I stand them on a table, pull them into my body, then drape one arm over them, this allows me to control them while treating them. When you pick her up, put a hand under her abdomen (cup the abdomen) with your hand for added support while you move her. This may help with the breathing as well.

Hopefully others like @coach723 will chime in with suggestions. Others may recognize something else I haven't.

I do wish you and Cleo all the best. If you have photos of her and the rest of your flock, they will be most welcome.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Check her crop first thing in the morning before she's had anything to eat/drink. If her crop is still mushy, then I'd begin treating her.

I prefer to give chilled pieces of coconut oil instead of liquid oil since the hen usually will eat it on her own and there's less chance of aspiration.
Even if there's no odor (yet) a crop can be turning sour. A yeast or fungal medication can help with that. Nystatin, Miconazole or Clotrimazole are commonly used here in the U.S. so likely you may be able to find one of these where you live.

A crop that is not emptying can cause some gurgling and, in some cases, respiratory distress if pressed on the right way.

Here's an article about treating the crop. These are the method(s) I use when treating my own hens.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Last night, I gave her crop her good massage and she expelled some gassy air from her beak. She has a faint "off" smell about her, actually. I thought it was the permethrin dip for the fleas. But now given these other clues, it seems more like her crop is going sour.

Isn't she sweet!

If the crop was a bit gassy, then yes, I'd treat as sour.
Palm oil sounds great. I'd be begin Nystatin or yeast cream to treat the crop too.

For me, I rarely separate a bird for treatment, I leave them with their flock and I don't restrict food. Others do, so you'll have to decide what's going to work for you.

 

[TropicalChickies]

I would finish the course of Nystatin and see how it goes.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/treating-candida-yeast-with-medistatin-nystatin-no-℞-needed.1258934/

She may have a partial blockage too, hard to know. I'd let her eat like you have been doing, with soft easy to process foods.
Hopefully this will begin to resolve soon.

Thanks. I can't get this Medastin here, but I can get Nyastin oral suspension at the "human pharmacy." It's easier to get many prescription medications in South America. Just tell the pharmacist the problem. So that's what I'm giving her, 2 ml 2x a day, at 6 am and 6pm

She's doing well otherwise. Today she was active all day, until 4pm she came to me wanting a massage. She was gassy. I gave her a dropper of water with a bit of vinegar and the gas broke right up. I hope it resolves soon too.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

I love how she just chats away with you, she's so sweet!

Try the flush and see how it goes. The salts can be dehydrating, so be sure to make fresh water available for her afterward.

Is Cleo a frog eater! Oh dear, my hens will snatch poor frogs up and make a game of it.
Keep me posted.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thanks, I'll give it a go. This morning, her crop was empty and flat, yay! She still has the sourdough smell, but less so. Little by little, it seems this is getting better.

She has more personality than most people. A few weeks ago, I saw this sweet Cleo grab a big frog, headbash it against some gravel, and swallow it whole. It happened in like one second. I was like goodness I hope she can digest that. So in addition to festering banana peels, she could have been trying to digest an entire frog

They probably would have fewer problems if I kept them in a run, which I'm always considering doing, but they have such a good time roaming about -- it's a balance I guess, like using the permethrin to control the fleas. We're an organic farm, so I'm not crazy about chemicals, but I'm not going to let my hens die unnecessary awful deaths from ectoparasites either.

Thanks for watching the video. I'll

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Keep me posted on how she's doing.

Oh Yes, I'm a Cleo Fan for sure

 

[TropicalChickies]

For anyone reading this thread, I just want to update that Cleo seems to have made a full recovery from her Sour Crop (while molting and while I was treating her for sticktight fleas)!

Her treatment was:

-Feeding her a tsp of oil every day for three days to move food through the crop
-a full 7 days of Nystatin, 2x day, 2.5 mil doses (She's about 6-7lbs)
-two Epsom salt flushes (that really helped clean her out so the Nystatin could work better I think)

She's back to her lay. This is her third season laying, but she's laid 4 big well formed eggs in seven days, not bad for her age at all. Her color is beautiful red, her comb is standing straight up, and she's ever so happy to be well.

Many thanks to @Wyorp Rock for helping me along the way.

The other hen, Butchie, who has been struggling with yeast on the back end (diarrhea and vent paste) is getting much better too. I'm aggressively treating her for cocci, worms, and yeast and at least one is working. I'll update that thread as well.