3 year old hen with a strange breathing problem, please help

[Wyorp Rock]

Hello,

Update: On Wednesday I gave Cleo an tiny Epsom salt flush. It appears to have really helped. I waited about five hours after her breakfast to let the crop empty some. I mixed half a tsp of salts in half a cup of water and carefully syringed 2 ml into her beak. Massaged the crop. Syringed another 2ml and massaged. Figured that was enough for now. Put her in the workshop to observe.

Ten minutes later she pooped out a foul smelling slimy brown green mush puddle. Egads, I'm not squeamish but this was pretty gross. Then she pooped another semi solid mass right after it, slightly less disgusting. Her crop immediately "degassed" and went flat against her chest. The sourdough smell from her beak -- gone!

Question: I haven't given her any more Epsom salt after that. Yesterday I gave water with a little electrolyte powder and probiotic. The instructions I found for the Epsom salt flush say to repeat for 3 days, but it doesn't seem necessary. Should I just keep it "in reserve" in case she gasses up again or repeat anyway?

I'm so glad she's doing much better!

I have seen instructions to repeat the flush for 3 days as well. If the one time seemed to work fine. Then I think I'd wait and see how she does over the next few days. You can always repeat just like you did, if needed.

It's wonderful news that the flush worked that well.

Tell Cleo I said "Hello!" and to stop eating all those frogs and bananas!

 

[TropicalChickies]

I'm so glad she's doing much better!

I have seen instructions to repeat the flush for 3 days as well. If the one time seemed to work fine. Then I think I'd wait and see how she does over the next few days. You can always repeat just like you did, if needed.

It's wonderful news that the flush worked that well.

Tell Cleo I said "Hello!" and to stop eating all those frogs and bananas!

Thank you. Yes, I agree. I'll observe and use the Epsom salts if needed. I'll keep Nyastin on hand too from now on. But only if really needed -- I imagine these anti-yeast/fungal meds must be hard on their little livers to process. The woman here at the "agroferreteria" (the stores that sell all of animal feeds and anti-parasitics etc recommended putting a few drops of liquid Complete B vitamin in her drinking water as well to help with the liver.

I'll keep you updated on Cleo here, but I'm going to start another thread on my other hen, Butchie Her appetite and energy are much improved, but she still has pasty butt and loose poop.

 

[TropicalChickies]

I'm so glad she's doing much better!

I have seen instructions to repeat the flush for 3 days as well. If the one time seemed to work fine. Then I think I'd wait and see how she does over the next few days. You can always repeat just like you did, if needed.

It's wonderful news that the flush worked that well.

Tell Cleo I said "Hello!" and to stop eating all those frogs and bananas!

Hi,
Cleo update. 3 days off Nyastin and doing well. I'm checking the crop and it's emptying overnight, not squishy, and more firm but malleable when it's full.

But yesterday I noticed Cleo's little face blushing a very bright deep red. Not purple-ish, but seriously fire engine red. I was like, oh no! What now?

Or maybe... she's coming back into her laying cycle...?

This morning she walked into the new mostly wood free coop I just built them, nestled into some wood shavings and ten minutes later came out crowing. Went in and found her first egg since she her molt! A beautiful big one with a nice strong shell too. There's a pic of it next to one of my pullets' eggs for comparison

Her color is still pretty red. Is this anything to watch or just her reproductive hormones signalling she's back in the saddle?

 

[TropicalChickies]

Yep, I'm checking her crop every morning and she seems right as rain.

Now I'm more worried about my other hen, Butchie, the one with persistent diarrhea and pasty butt. I posted about it (with all the details the Moderator recommends) but haven't gotten any helpful insights.

She's had persistent diarrhea for almost three months. Runny and yellow, almost every single time she poops. In the post I relate everything I've tried to do to help her in order from treating for bacteria to worms to yeast (with breaks in between.) Her energy and appetite come and go. After the course of Nyastin her appetite came back strong, but her poop is loose and watery all day long. It looks like she's not breaking down feed very well. Now there's a cheesy smell coming from her butt too.

I really appreciate your experience and help...I know you aren't my personal chicken coach, but I'd really appreciate it if you could take a look at this post and let me know if you have any ideas.

She drinks a lot of water. Ive tried putting electrolytes and probiotics in it 2-3 days a week, but it hasn't helped.

My partner went into town today to look for copper sulphate. That's the only thing I haven't tried!

Thread '2 year old hen. Persistent loose poop and pasty butt. Did not respond to Nyastin. More details and pics in post.' https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...yastin-more-details-and-pics-in-post.1551540/

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Yep, I'm checking her crop every morning and she seems right as rain.

Now I'm more worried about my other hen, Butchie, the one with persistent diarrhea and pasty butt. I posted about it (with all the details the Moderator recommends) but haven't gotten any helpful insights.

She's had persistent diarrhea for almost three months. Runny and yellow, almost every single time she poops. In the post I relate everything I've tried to do to help her in order from treating for bacteria to worms to yeast (with breaks in between.) Her energy and appetite come and go. After the course of Nyastin her appetite came back strong, but her poop is loose and watery all day long. It looks like she's not breaking down feed very well. Now there's a cheesy smell coming from her butt too.

I really appreciate your experience and help...I know you aren't my personal chicken coach, but I'd really appreciate it if you could take a look at this post and let me know if you have any ideas.

She drinks a lot of water. Ive tried putting electrolytes and probiotics in it 2-3 days a week, but it hasn't helped.

My partner went into town today to look for copper sulphate. That's the only thing I haven't tried!

Thread '2 year old hen. Persistent loose poop and pasty butt. Did not respond to Nyastin. More details and pics in post.' https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...yastin-more-details-and-pics-in-post.1551540/

I took a look at it.
No worries.
Hopefully some others will chime in with their thoughts too.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Thank you. I should add a few things about her diet during treatment.

I did not give any food for 24 hours after determining the crop was sour.
I only fed her small amounts (2 tsps) of boiled egg and damp chick starter mash for the first three days of treatment twice a day, and no food after 2pm. (Cleo is top hen so she eats more than her share sometimes, I have to watch that)

By day five, I started to increase the amount of food.

After 9 days, I put her back on regular layer crumble, dampened

If I would have done everything differently, I would have given her an Epsom flush earlier. But overall, the treatment worked.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Hello!

Thanks again for the reply. Cleo's crop this morning is still not flat. It's a bit distended, especially to one side and mushy, but better than it was last night.

Two possible clues to this:

1. all of her poops during the day and at night are normal looking -- solid ashy brown with some yellow brown from cracked corn with some dark green with a white cap. They peck at grass and leaves all day so that's normal for here.

But first thing in the morning for the past several days, she poops a much more liquidy-mushy poop. No foam or worms or blood. After that, she poops normal the rest of the day. I'm watching her, believe me.

So it seems (I hope) that her crop is emptying but slowly and incompletely. She also eats like a fiend and is top of the order. I referee their meals and make sure the younger chicks get enough food, but yowza Cleo can eat. (Their usual feed is a balanced layer ration cut with some cracked corn mashed together. If I give them straight layer feed, they don't like it.)

2. Last night, I gave her crop her good massage and she expelled some gassy air from her beak. She has a faint "off" smell about her, actually. I thought it was the permethrin dip for the fleas. But now given these other clues, it seems more like her crop is going sour.

Maybe this is why...?
Two weeks ago I had to deworm like I mentioned. Two girls had obvious signs and they all looked a little pale and drained. I used Flubenvent -- I know it's strong stuff but that's what is available here. I hesitated with Cleo because I know molting isn't the best time to deworm, but went ahead because to leave one chick with worms, they'll all get them again. As you surely know!

I read that strong dewormers like Flubenvent can have an antibiotic-like effect on the chick's flora and encourage fungal growth.

I really love this Cleo. She's such a character. So I'm trying to be optimistic while finding a solution. Despite her "middle age" and the flea battle, she's very robust. Up until this molt, she was still laying three or four times per week and had a ton of energy. So I'm hoping the crop is the problem, because it's treatable.

For treatment, I didn't feed her this morning, just gave her water with ACV. I don't have coconut oil but I do have solid pure palm oil, the good stuff, not processed. I can get Nyastin here, I've seen it at the pharmacy.

Questions: should I restrict her diet? Stop her usual feed until this hopefully clears up? What should I feed her in the meantime? Soft eggs? Yogurt?

I really think she will pull through. She's not acting particularly sick. Right now she's pacing her hospital room, pissed off that everyone else is eating.

I've attached a pic of her. I'll take one of her crop area as soon the sun comes out.

Thank you, sorry for the long posts. Hopefully, there's stuff in here others can learn from too.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Yes, the oil will cause some loose and oily poop.

 

[TropicalChickies]

Hi there. After a few days of oil, massages, and yeast treatment Cleo has improved, but is not completely better. Good news: she is out of respiratory distress, which is great. I can hold her and she can perch without making the squeaking/hiccuping sound. Her color is pinky red with no purplish cast.

The first day after I gave her palm oil and massages, she pooped a lot of rather bright green mushy poo. I freaked out initially that it was Newcastle or something, but then I found several threads here that other sour crop chickens do the same. Her poop is more normal now.

She's been on the yeast medication for four days now though and her crop is still mushy in the morning. I took the picture below first thing this morning. I've been restricting her diet mostly to boiled egg and water. Yesterday I tried some mashed feed (no corn) and afterwards I had to "burp" her by massaging her crop. Her head smells like warm sourdough bread. There's no liquid coming up in her throat or out of her beak, but she's gassy and I can hear a fermenting bubbling sound in there. Her crop feels tender and inflamed, but she likes to get massaged.

Overall, her energy is pretty good. Her new feathers are coming in well She took the dustiest dust bath I've ever seen a chicken take yesterday, she's preening herself, and hungry. She even eats the medication, no problem.

Is four days too soon to hope for recovery? Should I try an antifungal after the course of Nyastin if the crop stays mushy?

Thank you for your help

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Way to go Cleo!

The color is from her coming back into lay.
As she gets into the swing of things, you may notice she's got a lot of color before she lays her egg and is a bit paler afterward, then she'll start to redden back up. Yes, it's hormones.
She looks great!

Both eggs are beautiful, but Cleo's is a bit more special isn't it