A century of Turkey talk 2000-2100.

[I Like Turkeys]

@Molpet
First of all I have to say that there is quite a difference between European Bourbon Reds and the US ones.
In Europe partially, or even fully colored tail feathers are very common. Breeders pluck out those feathers as the new feathers will come in without the red coloring.
There are also other factors that may cause partially or fully colored tail feathers.
Bourbon Reds that are heterozygous on the b-locus (bb') are known to express such a color pattern.
Another genetic factor is the Narragansett allele (n). This allele is used to produce Bourbon Buff.

That's interesting, thank you.
If you don't mind me asking, do you know if the red body color of red turkeys can be used as an indicator of their genotype?
All of the bourbon reds i've owned, which are the 3 I had photos of, are very light in body color when compared to the dark red that is desired. Is that dark red the 'norm' for bourbon reds, and light birds automatically have extra genes in the mix, or is the color something that is selectively bred for(like red chickens?), where b/b r/r turkeys can be both light red and dark red depending on line?
Sorry if I worded it confusingly.

 

[austria89]

That's interesting, thank you.
If you don't mind me asking, do you know if the red body color of red turkeys can be used as an indicator of their genotype?
All of the bourbon reds i've owned, which are the 3 I had photos of, are very light in body color when compared to the dark red that is desired. Is that dark red the 'norm' for bourbon reds, and light birds automatically have extra genes in the mix, or is the color something that is selectively bred for(like red chickens?), where b/b r/r turkeys can be both light red and dark red depending on line?
Sorry if I worded it confusingly.

Regarding your first question:

red body color of red turkeys can be used as an indicator of their genotype?

Yes the red body color is an indication of the genotype.
The so called "red-allele" increases the amount of pheomelanin. One copy of this allele increases the red coloring of the birds just a tad. Two copies although will make the birds almost completely unicolor red. Based on other genes, the results vary and, therefore, give you a clue about the presence of these genes.

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Example 1:
If a Bronze turkey inherits one copy of the red-allele (Rr) it will turn out this way (Red Bronze - bb Rr):

You can see that the red color is way more prominent than in an usual Bronze turkey.

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Example 2:
If you go one step further and bring in a second copy of the red-allele (rr), it will turn out this way (Bourbon Red - bb rr):

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About your second question:

Is that dark red the 'norm' for bourbon reds, and light birds automatically have extra genes in the mix, or is the color something that is selectively bred for(like red chickens?)

There are quite a few factors that influence the way the red-allele will express itself. Not only the red-allele will determine how dark/prominent the red coloring will be, but also other influential factors.
If we just look have a look at the different types of Bronze turkeys that exist, you'll notice that they all have different ratios of eumelanin and pheomelanin.
There are some very reddish phenotypes but also some with very little red.

vs.

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As you can imagine, the final result may also differ if you use the red-allele on both of these very different turkeys.
For example in Germany the standard of perfection calls for Bronze turkeys with a high level of pheomelanin (like the one in the first picture), while the US standard calls for the second phenotype.
As these Bronze turkeys are in Germany also involved in the production of the local Bourbon Reds, the phenotype of the Bourbon Reds is influenced by these genetic factors. In Germany, the Bourbon Reds are in general very light Red and not as dark as the very good lines from the US.
One has to keep in mind that the red pigments do replace black pigments. The higher the degree of pheomelanin production is, the lighter the end result will be.
There are of course other genes that have also influence on the final result (cg, n, e, D,...) but it would be a little bit too much to go into further detail.
I always recommend to make some test matings.
Search for Bronze turkeys (the ones with lots of white and very little red color) and mate them with your Bourbon Reds. The way those will turn out as adults will give you an insight about the type of Bronze-gene that was used to create your Bourbon Reds.
From there I would start planning further steps.

I hope this helps a little bit to clear things up.

 

[Huntmaster]

Had a heavy ice storm here yesterday and finally have power back on, doesn't look good for the Quail eggs I had in incubator. But that is nothing compared to what it did to the farm that I named Pine Ridge Farm not sure how many pines are going to have to be cut down. The heavy ice stripped so many branches they now look like Charlie Browns Christmas tree And done a job to my turkey pens and netting as well so many branches falling on fences and netting A few pics just around the house with all the downed limbs not even the worst, didn't take any pics of turkey pens but it even snapped a few 4x4s of at ground level. Boy do I have some work to do not sure where to start I guess I started already went and bought a new chainsaw today and a new chain for my old one. News this eve said it was the 4th largest February rain fall in our area and it had to be mostly ice.

 

[Huntmaster]

As you can see its all-green live branches not like it was all dead stuff needing trimmed. I don't believe I have ever seen ice buildup that thick on trees and things in my 60 years. All I heard all night was crack crack boom branches breaking and hitting the ground. But all the birds were ok this morning just a little soggy and freaking out a bit with all the ice and change to their scenery/pens. Luckely, it warmed right up today to mid 50s and melted everything fast. Even though it wasn't raining today it was a constant down poor under all the tress most of the day.

 

[Molpet]

As you can see its all-green live branches not like it was all dead stuff needing trimmed. I don't believe I have ever seen ice buildup that thick on trees and things in my 60 years. All I heard all night was crack crack boom branches breaking and hitting the ground. But all the birds were ok this morning just a little soggy and freaking out a bit with all the ice and change to their scenery/pens. Luckely, it warmed right up today to mid 50s and melted everything fast. Even though it wasn't raining today it was a constant down poor under all the tress most of the day.

Glad the birds are okay
Sorry for the disastrous mess

 

[Huntmaster]

Glad the birds are okay
Sorry for the disastrous mess

Thanks, just have a bit more work to do than I was planning on this spring but hate to see so many of my beautiful pines now looking like Charlie Browns Christmas tree. But everything else made it through it ok so could have been worse

 

[R2elk]

 

[Huntmaster]

View attachment 3414754

Looks like I got the ice, and you got the snow.

 

[R2elk]

Looks like I got the ice, and you got the snow.

And the cold. Yesterday's low was -29°F and today's low was -21°. Wind damage took out about a 10" branch from a cottonwood.

BTW the tracks are of a turkey landing after flying down from the roost.

 

[Huntmaster]

BTW the tracks are of a turkey landing after flying down from the roost.

Yes, I could tell what they were from just wasn't positive if it was from flying down or up. Figured down because wings only hit snow once not a few times trying to get that big ole body moving up.