A Dangerous Topic - the new health care plan

[Eggs4Sale]

Quote:
Saddina, I love you, but I gotta disagree with you here.

There are a whole lot of fiscally conservative people out there. A LOT. Those same people who are at town hall meetings screaming the loudest are also the ones who were horrified at the things Bush did.
It's not about political class, or agenda.
It's about values.

While some people want to see President Obama fail in WHATEVER he does, I think by and large more Americans don't have this as their dream. Most Americans simply want America to remain their America. Most Americans truly respect our soldiers. Most Americans salute the flag of the United States. Most Americans do not want to live in debt or pay for dead-beats. Most Americans don't feel represented by ANY politician.
These town halls tell me nothing more than the fact that many Americans do not feel good about the direction the country is headed, and they're tired of expecting politicians to do their jobs.

Please don't read anything into these people's actions. There is nothing evil there. I've seen the videos and read many articles. I see a lot of retirees, a lot of veterans, a lot of housewives, a lot of regular looking decent people. That's all they are. I bet you most of them cry when they think of 9/11. Honestly. I do. I'm normal. I'm thinking of going.

 

[saddina]

A lot of the things on that list are taken out of context, and already debunked, but oh well, passion beats logic on this one for many people.

Crusty I'm glad to hear Canada hasn't collapsed yet, many people here are sure it'll bring armegeddon

.

Seems the people who already have healthcare want to keep those without coverage, well without coverage, unfortunatly many people would happily pay for it, if it was plausable to afford it.

 

[saddina]

Quote:
Saddina, I love you, but I gotta disagree with you here.

There are a whole lot of fiscally conservative people out there. A LOT. Those same people who are at town hall meetings screaming the loudest are also the ones who were horrified at the things Bush did.
It's not about political class, or agenda.
It's about values.

While some people want to see President Obama fail in WHATEVER he does, I think by and large more Americans don't have this as their dream. Most Americans simply want America to remain their America. Most Americans truly respect our soldiers. Most Americans salute the flag of the United States. Most Americans do not want to live in debt or pay for dead-beats. Most Americans don't feel represented by ANY politician.
These town halls tell me nothing more than the fact that many Americans do not feel good about the direction the country is headed, and they're tired of expecting politicians to do their jobs.

Please don't read anything into these people's actions. There is nothing evil there. I've seen the videos and read many articles. I see a lot of retirees, a lot of veterans, a lot of housewives, a lot of regular looking decent people. That's all they are. I bet you most of them cry when they think of 9/11. Honestly. I do. I'm normal. I'm thinking of going.

Honey I adore you too, but for many people it seems they're still unwilling to face reality of how the election went, and the more vocal and strung out emotionally they act, the easier it is to write them off as raving nut bags. You are correct of course, it is about values, the main one is how can the same groups of people send out statements claiming they value all life, and then in the next paragraph claim that others should be left without any care? It's hypocritical at best. Then again I could be sensitive on the issue, having been in an accident that killed my husband, our baby and ruptured a kidney leaves me with a pre-existing condition, wanna guess what my premimums look like?

 

[CityGirlintheCountry]

As was mentioned earlier, there already is a gov't run health care system in this country. It's called the VA. How is that working out? That is gov't health care on a small scale. Perhaps it is different in other parts of the country, but down here it is horrible. It is the last resort. The last debacle is that the VA hospital was reusing certain exam equipment (the one that comes to mind is the colonoscopy scope) without completely sterilizing it between uses. A large number of people were exposed to hepatitis and AIDS. (I don't know the news link off the top of my head. I can search for it tomorrow when I'm not so tired.

) It is a medical system run by unmotivated people with no impetus for quality and improvement. That is, I'm afraid, what the entire system would eventually be like if the government gets to run it.

I agree that there needs to be medical reform. The whole system is out of whack. Part of me thinks that it is so out of whack because there have been lots of meddling fingers in the pie. Like most consumer driven enterprises, I wonder if insurance would be self-regulating if allowed to be. I don't know the answer. I just worry that our government, which recently has a track record of screwing things up, will ruin the health care system.
Look at the post office, the IRS, the DMV, Children's Services. The list can go on and on. As a chronically ill person I do not want the gov't in charge of my health care.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Judy]

In the end, Obama's plan will require people who cannot presently afford health insurance to buy something that they cannot afford, and which will likely be of no use to them.

The simple truth is, either we need to switch to true public coverage for all, or leave it alone. Post #8 here says it all, without even reading through it. Either we are all covered, or we are not; it is nuts to set parameters, qualifications, or whatever. The system itself will have plenty of those. We will have to wait our turn, and will only have so many treatment options. Not that different from Medicare, really.

My opinion is that the government has no choice but to provide health care for everyone, and it is only a matter of time til we do. It's not that I think this is right, but that I think is inevitable. I understand that this has its own problems, as anyone in the UK or Canada will tell you, but I do not see that we have any choice, in the long run. And, no, I do not think that this is the time to try to do this. It is the one thing that Clinton tried to do that was correct.

We cannot continue to be a world leader, or take that stance, and fail to provide medical care for all our citizens. It's not a matter of being in favor of "socialized medicine," it's a matter of there being no feasible alternative.

To me, it is a given that an illegal alien would have no access to health care guaranteed to citizens. I cannot understand why they even have access to our educational system . Parameters could certainly be established for those with legal access, who are working towards citizenship, or otherwise legally here. That's simply about integrating immigration laws; not so complicated. And I even have a friend who would fall n this category, along with her children.

All IMHO, of course.

 

[Judy]

Quote:
Many valid points here.

Trouble is, the current private system is not necessarily any better, and yet, people have to pay for it.

 

[ZepChick]

All I have is my opinion, not any facts...but I fear that if the new healthplan truly passes, we will be driving away our physicians. i am a nurse, and I see further staffing cuts when my hospital loses money. when everyone has the same healthcare, then there isn't going to be anyone left to take care of them. doctors will retire, and rightly so, they worked all of those years to become a physician, they deserve to be reimbursed fairly. The US physicians of the future will come from another country, with a third rate education and it will take months for us to get in to see them, and then we will only get certain, government-designated treatments.

It will take much longer to see a less qualified doctor. BTW, no hospital will turn away a person without insurance. Hospitals eat those bills all of the time. The same for illegal aliens. No one with an emergency is going to get refused care, and when they can't pay the bill, it just 'goes away' and the hospital, doctors, nurses, healthcare personnel all lose money. In my opinion, healthcare reform is a horrible idea. I used to talk with my daughter about being a doctor, that was her plan. Not now, I just can't fathom advising her to work so hard for nothing. ~ kim

 

[kagedgoddess]

ok i havent read everything yet. but i am glad you started this and posted your link. i dont understand 1 thing about this bill. all i hear about are "death panels" which i KNOW are NOT true. in fact what i read about that said it was Counseling about the care you WANT and how to get it. ex you dont want life support, the drs/counsler tells you how to set it up so you wont be terri schrivo (sp) sounds good to me! or if you want to be terri, the drs tell you how to set it up so NO One pulls your plug, right? lots of old ppl dont know these things, lots of young ppl either.

one thing i want to point out as to why i am FOR the health care thing is I was paying $400/mo to cover myself and my son i had a $1000 deductable for each of us and i got pregnant. i had to pay $3000 MYSELF. i Made $8.00/hr, Now that was the coverage i chose, (the alt was $100/more a month and a $500/deduct so i d a paid $2500 out of pocket) So here is the Kicker. my 10yo dd birth cost $2000 TOTAL!!!! i had the EXACT same stuff done with her as with last dd, WHY does it now cost $10,000 TOTAL?????????????? NOTHING CHANGED!!!!! ( it was $1800 for a room i was in 1hr, then $1800 for the room i delivered in what the crap man! this one i m having at the Marriot, at least its cheaper, the beds are comfyer and i wont be hooked upto stupid machines non stop)

Also i think BEFORE the drs send away for or do ANYTHING they need to Tell you how much it will cost! er visit, we need a second opinion on this sonogram, its gonna cost $300, you have to pay for it. THEN i can say NO THANK YOU! instead of them sending me a bill 3 mo later.

we need a "truth in billing" like we do in Lending. AND if a Procedure costs $1000 but the dr made a deal to accept blue cross who say they will only pay $900, well the dr HAS to accept that and NOT bill the patient the extra $100. AND whoever said about over head being high for drs. How about SHopping at OFFICE DEPOT or WALMART for your fancy office chairs and desks? How about Not saying your costs are high when your driving a brand new Porsche, billing me $200/visit and iI M driving a 1994 SATURN!!!!!!!!

doctors are like Lawyers.....

 

[BamaChicken]

I believe there needs to be reform but I don't think anything needs to be rushed thru and not read by the people who are voting on it. I believe it should be written in simple terms that the every citizen can understand otherwise our lawmakers won't know what they are voting on. As some have mentioned the IRS is a complete mess. From expierence I know you can call and talk to three different people and get three different anwsers for the same question.
In my state we are limited on Ins availability. Lots of really good Ins companies discontinued covering people in Al due to the ability to Sue.
Our BCBS has gotten riduculously high. I have a individual policy as my husband does. It cost 230 dollars each monthly and then we have to pay 30 copay to see a doctor plus whatever the Dr. charges over this because it won't a dime till we meet the 1000 dollar deductible which we recieved notice is going up to 2000 in Jan. We have to pay 250 on prescription drugs each before they will pick the cost after 15 dollar copay on each medication.
This is the best we can get, believe we have checked

We both take limited amounts of Medication, BP meds, and I can't imagine what other people who have serious health issues must pay.
I know we spend over 1000 dollars a month just on healthcare.
That makes a huge dent in our income.
I would like to see more affordable healthcare.
I would like to say in our state children can get really good Ins provided by the state if their parents can't afford to cover them. I think you can make up to 50,000 yearly and still get them covered by the state. That is helpful for so many young families
It can be devastating to have something serious happen and not have Ins.
I had to have emergency Bypass Surg. at age 52 and did not have Ins. The hospital did not write it off. I did offer them a small payoff and they agreed to accept 15000 and consider it paid in full.
I am still paying the Surg and Cardiologist a small amt monthly till I can get it paid for. Still paying anesthsia too.
I can tell you we don't run to the Dr. just because we don't feel good. It has to be serious.
This is why I think we need reform. What is preposed right now I don't think is going to help the average person.

 

[kagedgoddess]

Quote:
um.... no bill "just goes away" talk to your billing dept. a bill that isnt paid goes to Collections. the Hospital Sells its debt to a collector who trys to get the $$$ and WHO do you think pays for that????? certainly NOt the hospital, they get it back by raising their fees.

EVERYONE who thinks we are NOT ALREADY paying for those without insuance and Illegals are VERY mistaken! these people DO NOT go to the doctor when mildly ill, they go to the ER. they know they can skip out on the bill and get all the care they need then. vs. paying $150 UP front to a gp. (thats what it costs round here and w/o insurance you Pay First) so not only are you paying by the hosp raising its fees, but you are paying MORE than you should for their care.


Also dh was in the navy, we never had a problem with portsmouth naval hosp and getting care. or having to wait a long time for stuff. now the "drs." at the clinics were peices of work, but the hosp was excellent. how about this for costs?? dd stepped on a nail late one evening, it was so rusty i was worried some broke off in her foot, we went to the naval hosp, they checked her shot records, cleaned her foot, gave X-RAYS and bandaged her up... now rememebr this was an ER visit.... she wasnt on dhs page 2s yet or on tricare cuz we had just gotten married and he was deployed before he got the paperwork in.... TOTAL BILL $200. thats right TWO HUNDRED. a visit to our gp in civie life is $150! you cant walk into the er and get billed less than $800 in a civie hosp.