Allsfairinloveandbugs

Crowing
Premium Feather Member
Feb 10, 2020
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You are correct it is not a layer feed, the layer feed was in completely different bags, it was personally mixed via the feed store and was in all white feed sacks, sewed shut with ingredients written on the bag.
I agree with others that what you were told by the feed rep did not suddenly kill your keets and chicks. But something in the feed could still be toxic. Others have mentioned mold, & aflatoxins produced by mold arent always visible. Your words "the feed was "personally mixed in the store and ingredients written on bag", raised a huge red flag in my mind. Toxins other than mold could also have somehow been added/mixed in.

Others have mentioned sending off a dead chick for necropsy to determine cause of death. Another avenue is to contact your local county extension agent, explain what happened, and request a feed analysis. Seems to me that the feed rep is covering their a$$.
 

rosemarythyme

Scarborough Fair
5 Years
Jul 3, 2016
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According to the feed rep the feed killed them due to the larger crumbles and their inability to digest them?
Large crumble is still crumble and once ingested, would pretty much dissolve into something similar to mush. If there were pieces of crumble that were really too large the chicks would just pick out smaller pieces.

Nutritionally grower feed is fine for chicken chicks (I don't have guineas so not going to guess on that), maybe just a bit lower on protein than what some folks would want for faster growth. So despite the 8 weeks and up instruction, the feed described in the nutrition tag is fine for chicks as far as nutritional value.

Given the losses I'd be more suspect of mold or toxin having gotten in, due to how feed was stored, error during manufacturing, something to that effect...
 

arwoon

Crowing
Jun 19, 2017
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You probably already know
"Medicated" feed doesn't kill birds. Amprolium in the doses found in feed can't block enough Thiamine (B1) to matter (to them). Moreover, its easily reversible and hardly sudden in its effects. You'd have to ignore your birds clearly very sick behaviors for a lengthy period for them to die of Thiamine deficiency.

Correlation is not causation.

At 5x normal doses, in a study of Ross 308 chicks (male and female) submitted for EU approval of Amprolium, there were NO CLINICAL DIFFERENCES between birds fed no Amprolium, standard dosage Amrpolium, and 5x the recommended dose of Amprolium, apart from their observed coccidia loads. Give this a read.

This is from back in 1962. The doses studied were 2,000 ppm, 4,000 ppm, and up to 20,000 ppm. The current standard dosage is 125 mg/kg, or 125 ppm.

Here in the US, Amprolium-treated feed is offered essentially non-stop to commercial battery egg layers all their lives. Its one of the safest drugs we have available to us as chicken keepers, and is extremely well studied over a lengthy period where high toxicity costs commercial growers interested in maximizing the bottom line.
Very interesting. What I meant is that I went form organic chick feed to what I thought was the same thing. I didn't transition because I assumed they would give me the right stuff, what I had been using. I know medicated feed in itself does not kill birds, but the fact that I did no transition between feeds and that this particular chick needed a steady diet, were the reason he died.
 

rosemarythyme

Scarborough Fair
5 Years
Jul 3, 2016
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Very interesting. What I meant is that I went form organic chick feed to what I thought was the same thing. I didn't transition because I assumed they would give me the right stuff, what I had been using. I know medicated feed in itself does not kill birds, but the fact that I did no transition between feeds and that this particular chick needed a steady diet, were the reason he died.
Transitioning shouldn't kill them either. I don't bother doing a slow transition any more with chickens, as they'll scratch out the new feed to get to the old, so I swap over 100%. Haven't had any issue doing that with adults or chicks.

My guess is there might've been something else wrong with that particular chick and it happened to die around the time you changed feeds, but impossible to know for sure.
 

Kiki

🙄🤚Do More!
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Jul 31, 2015
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Very interesting. What I meant is that I went form organic chick feed to what I thought was the same thing. I didn't transition because I assumed they would give me the right stuff, what I had been using. I know medicated feed in itself does not kill birds, but the fact that I did no transition between feeds and that this particular chick needed a steady diet, were the reason he died.
❌❌ This switching of feeds did not kill the chick either.
 

U_Stormcrow

Free Ranging
Jun 7, 2020
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Very interesting. What I meant is that I went form organic chick feed to what I thought was the same thing. I didn't transition because I assumed they would give me the right stuff, what I had been using. I know medicated feed in itself does not kill birds, but the fact that I did no transition between feeds and that this particular chick needed a steady diet, were the reason he died.
to repeat, "Correlation is not Causation." Try again.

That explanation may satisfy you, but it lacks any plausible mechanism expected to result in such an outcome.
 

Weeg

Crossing the Road
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Jul 1, 2020
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You are correct it is not a layer feed, the layer feed was in completely different bags, it was personally mixed via the feed store and was in all white feed sacks, sewed shut with ingredients written on the bag.

The feed pictured is an all flock feed "FOR POULTRY OVER 8 WEEKS"

According to the sales rep, this type of feed has crumbles to large for 1 week old guineas and chicks to digest. If this is untrue, then I'm back to searching for the cause of death😭😭😭; however since I put them back on chick starter every is happy and healthy🙂
As you've heard many times on this thread already, this feed didn't kill your birds.
I've heard of chickens passing plastic, nails, earrings, feed bag strings, and recently followed at thread were a hen passed a feeding tube that was accidentally swallowed. They will surprise you with their resilience.
I'm so so sorry for your your loss, I've had this happen before and know the horrible, helpless feeling of now knowing what happened, or what is happening. I recently los my Smudge to an unknown disease, and am waiting for histopathology results.
I also agree that you should send a bird into your state lab for necropsy, or at least do one yourself. Keep bodies cool but not frozen, and send into your state lab. Calling them and asking which testing you should get is helpful as well, and can be useful in specific situations if you're unsure. I'm so sorry this is happening, it can be very rough. Hang in there, and I really hope you figure out what is happening in your flock. You're a experienced, smart, loving poultry mother, you'll get to the bottom of this. :hugs:hugs
 

NatJ

Free Ranging
Mar 20, 2017
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this feed didn't kill your birds.
The feed might have killed the birds.
But not for the reason the feed rep said (pieces too big)
And not for anything that can be seen on the tag (levels of protein, calcium, and so forth are not dangerous to the birds in question)

So if the feed did kill the birds, it was because of something wrong with the feed (like toxins from mold or from some other source.)
 

Weeg

Crossing the Road
Premium Feather Member
Jul 1, 2020
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The feed might have killed the birds.
But not for the reason the feed rep said (pieces too big)
And not for anything that can be seen on the tag (levels of protein, calcium, and so forth are not dangerous to the birds in question)

So if the feed did kill the birds, it was because of something wrong with the feed (like toxins from mold or from some other source.)
Yes, you are absolutely correct. I thought this in my head but forgot to put it in the post. Thanks for clearing that up, and fixing my mistake. :D:p
 

Folly's place

Enabler
10 Years
Sep 13, 2011
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A reputable feed company would offer to pay for necropsies, and having the feed tested, to clear up this sad story. Keep that feed, and it's tags and packaging, so it can be tested!!!
Always buy feed that's labeled, and has a clear mill date that's within at least a month or only slightly older. I agree that there is probably some problem with this bag of feed, and lots of issues with that store, or at least that one staffer.
Sometimes things are cheap for a reason...
Mary
 
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