Aaaargh! Dog breeders!
- Thread starter Senna95
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They don't need to find a stud dog glen mar, all they need to do is to find a breeder like you, get a female from you get a male from someone like you, throw them together and get a litter every six months. Heck they don't even need akc but they can find fixed akc registered old dogs in the paper for giveaway if they look. Then they can dispose of the akc fixed set and breed your limited registration dogs as akc. Do you really not see how this works in the REAL world we live in, if someone wants a line there are many ways to get it and get it registered to boot. If someone is a responsible breeder what do they want with a dog that has limited registration, that to me is a huge honking red flag. A breeder going after a dog they can do nothing with. As for screening puppy buyers, a questionnaire? Now that is a great way to weed out dishonest people.
Hnestly, very few people would go through that trouble. If they don't care about the quality of the dogs and are being irresponsible, they will just go buy cheap full registration dogs from bybs anyway.
They don't need to find a stud dog glen mar, all they need to do is to find a breeder like you, get a female from you get a male from someone like you, throw them together and get a litter every six months. Heck they don't even need akc but they can find fixed akc registered old dogs in the paper for giveaway if they look. Then they can dispose of the akc fixed set and breed your limited registration dogs as akc. Do you really not see how this works in the REAL world we live in, if someone wants a line there are many ways to get it and get it registered to boot. If someone is a responsible breeder what do they want with a dog that has limited registration, that to me is a huge honking red flag. A breeder going after a dog they can do nothing with. As for screening puppy buyers, a questionnaire? Now that is a great way to weed out dishonest people.
Hnestly, very few people would go through that trouble. If they don't care about the quality of the dogs and are being irresponsible, they will just go buy cheap full registration dogs from bybs anyway.
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First off, six litters per dog is almost unheard of by a responsible breeder, that's why I questioned it. Average is two or three.
Second, there are show kennels and the there are breeders who show, but also have their dogs as loved family members. Many more breeders fit into the latter category.
I do agree that some show dogs have evolved into dogs who no longer are in a working form (cocker spaniels) and I think that breeders and buyers should make it known that these extreme hair dos and such are not what is wanted. This is also why I breed to PRESERVE my breed, not to "better" it.
Oh, and a six month old pup would have been fine to bond with your stock as long as he had the right temperamnet. I have had dogs that were two and five years old before stock introductions who did great.
First off, six litters per dog is almost unheard of by a responsible breeder, that's why I questioned it. Average is two or three.
Second, there are show kennels and the there are breeders who show, but also have their dogs as loved family members. Many more breeders fit into the latter category.
I do agree that some show dogs have evolved into dogs who no longer are in a working form (cocker spaniels) and I think that breeders and buyers should make it known that these extreme hair dos and such are not what is wanted. This is also why I breed to PRESERVE my breed, not to "better" it.
Oh, and a six month old pup would have been fine to bond with your stock as long as he had the right temperamnet. I have had dogs that were two and five years old before stock introductions who did great.
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Yep as the old saying goes where ther is a will.....
I hope you don't think I was picking at you I just wanted to point out what responsible means to me now. I bred lhasas a few decades ago ( showing my age here) and I always demanded limited registration, I had the contract with rights back to the dogs etc etc. It was on paper a great contract but I never went and physically inspected the dogs. In reality I have no idea if the litter I produced ended up fixed, for a while I worried over this and since I did not have the time to drive and follow up on the pups I had my dogs fixed. In the minds of some I was responsible, I took great care of mom and dad, did not breed one of my males due to behavior issues and made sure I had a contract and insisted on all owners Altering the dogs, in reality I was an irresponsible breeder because I never followed up. I have run through my mind how some horrible puppy mill could have ended up with my pup and realized that many "responsible breeders" fall prey to these owners of these mills.
The breeder I was dealing with for the great pyrs could easily fall to such a scheme. She was going to let me leave with a female and male pyr that were not altered with a contract on paper with the option to breed the two later as a partnership. Well if I would have been a creep I could have taken those dogs bred them in a months time and done god knows what with the litter and she would have been none the wiser. Also she told me of a man whom she would not sell a dog to. He wanted her line so he went in the middle of the night cut a hole in the fence and got her top sire.
I get a bit riled up when breeders are automatically given the title responsible just because they have a contract. Show me that you go to every home of a pup you adopt out and check that the contract is honored, don't send adult dogs out unaltered and don't breed just to keep your show dog imprisoned and maybe they will earn my respect, not many of those around unfortunately
Yep as the old saying goes where ther is a will.....
I hope you don't think I was picking at you I just wanted to point out what responsible means to me now. I bred lhasas a few decades ago ( showing my age here) and I always demanded limited registration, I had the contract with rights back to the dogs etc etc. It was on paper a great contract but I never went and physically inspected the dogs. In reality I have no idea if the litter I produced ended up fixed, for a while I worried over this and since I did not have the time to drive and follow up on the pups I had my dogs fixed. In the minds of some I was responsible, I took great care of mom and dad, did not breed one of my males due to behavior issues and made sure I had a contract and insisted on all owners Altering the dogs, in reality I was an irresponsible breeder because I never followed up. I have run through my mind how some horrible puppy mill could have ended up with my pup and realized that many "responsible breeders" fall prey to these owners of these mills.
The breeder I was dealing with for the great pyrs could easily fall to such a scheme. She was going to let me leave with a female and male pyr that were not altered with a contract on paper with the option to breed the two later as a partnership. Well if I would have been a creep I could have taken those dogs bred them in a months time and done god knows what with the litter and she would have been none the wiser. Also she told me of a man whom she would not sell a dog to. He wanted her line so he went in the middle of the night cut a hole in the fence and got her top sire.
I get a bit riled up when breeders are automatically given the title responsible just because they have a contract. Show me that you go to every home of a pup you adopt out and check that the contract is honored, don't send adult dogs out unaltered and don't breed just to keep your show dog imprisoned and maybe they will earn my respect, not many of those around unfortunately
And of course nothing has been said about the corruption of show titles by choosing which judges one shows under.
This entire subject angers me because it assumes you are guilty of intending to breed until proven innocent by spay/neuter. Only the elite class can afford to pay the prices the breeders demand for even the pet quality culls of their litters and that is after passing the "are you good enough to have my dog" test.
I might go along with the philosophy more if I did not have numerous numerous instances of dogs winning championships by choosing the right judges with the right competition-- including intentionally showing lesser quality animals just to increase the numbers in a show.
I think the entire system is corrupt. The entire dog situation almost makes me believe those rumors that PETA is guiding the spay/neuter campaign because it's the initial step to eliminating ownership of all animals.
And FWIW, our Bess is a Black Russian Terrier rescue whom we picked up from her owner: 6 yrs old and unspayed. We did pay $600 for her spay surgery but we didn't want to have a litter - our choice. Our first dog was an adult BRT rescue from a humane society. Would we love a BRT pup? Sure would. Not going to pay 3K for one though. We don't show and don't need any registration papers. What we need is a good dog with the traits we want in a chosen breed.
We showed dairy cows for 20 years and never paid more than $600 for a calf with papers-- and you were EXPECTED to breed it and MAKE more money.
Sorry, folks,I'm just an old farm gal who believes a dog should pay its way like the rest of us. Same goes for the chickens. I'm surprised no one has started chipping and registering their purebred chickens.
I've incited enough now.
BTW, I know a local breeder of Belgians if you are interested. She breeds for therapy dogs and has some intelligent lines.
This entire subject angers me because it assumes you are guilty of intending to breed until proven innocent by spay/neuter. Only the elite class can afford to pay the prices the breeders demand for even the pet quality culls of their litters and that is after passing the "are you good enough to have my dog" test.
I might go along with the philosophy more if I did not have numerous numerous instances of dogs winning championships by choosing the right judges with the right competition-- including intentionally showing lesser quality animals just to increase the numbers in a show.
I think the entire system is corrupt. The entire dog situation almost makes me believe those rumors that PETA is guiding the spay/neuter campaign because it's the initial step to eliminating ownership of all animals.
And FWIW, our Bess is a Black Russian Terrier rescue whom we picked up from her owner: 6 yrs old and unspayed. We did pay $600 for her spay surgery but we didn't want to have a litter - our choice. Our first dog was an adult BRT rescue from a humane society. Would we love a BRT pup? Sure would. Not going to pay 3K for one though. We don't show and don't need any registration papers. What we need is a good dog with the traits we want in a chosen breed.
We showed dairy cows for 20 years and never paid more than $600 for a calf with papers-- and you were EXPECTED to breed it and MAKE more money.
Sorry, folks,I'm just an old farm gal who believes a dog should pay its way like the rest of us. Same goes for the chickens. I'm surprised no one has started chipping and registering their purebred chickens.
I've incited enough now.
BTW, I know a local breeder of Belgians if you are interested. She breeds for therapy dogs and has some intelligent lines.
Quote:
1. I wasn't quoting your post,i believe we are talking about the same post and you are correct six is not responsible .
2. I disagree many more fit into the former.
3. I have no problem preserving a breed, if we followed the opinions of PETA where would we be? We need our pure breeds absolutely and I think we are of the same opinion here. The point I am trying to make is that show breeders should not automatically be given the title of responsible just because they move around the ring. I feel there is so much more to it, mainly preserve what the breed was intended for. Also I would like to see registries like akc take a more responsible role and not just collect litter fees and show fees.
And I will disagree with you on the six months, a great Pyrenees really needs to bond by 3 months, the breeder should have known this and offered that dog to someone else. But she did take 17 dogs to champion in one year, for whatever that is worth to the necks of my chickens, ducks and geese I don't know.
1. I wasn't quoting your post,i believe we are talking about the same post and you are correct six is not responsible .
2. I disagree many more fit into the former.
3. I have no problem preserving a breed, if we followed the opinions of PETA where would we be? We need our pure breeds absolutely and I think we are of the same opinion here. The point I am trying to make is that show breeders should not automatically be given the title of responsible just because they move around the ring. I feel there is so much more to it, mainly preserve what the breed was intended for. Also I would like to see registries like akc take a more responsible role and not just collect litter fees and show fees.
And I will disagree with you on the six months, a great Pyrenees really needs to bond by 3 months, the breeder should have known this and offered that dog to someone else. But she did take 17 dogs to champion in one year, for whatever that is worth to the necks of my chickens, ducks and geese I don't know.
If I were you I would start by contacting herding clubs in the area, and join. Go to matches and practices. Get to know the people. You may find that is the best way to get the kind of dog you want. FWIW, my "dog of a lifetime" was a belgian tervuren. She had a TON of herding instinct. I got her without limited registration, pedigree full of champions and national champions, european champions in conformation. I never bred her, evn though there were available finished males within a hour's drive from here. I loved my dog, but did not like what I saw in the breed in general, with epilepsy, skin problems. weird dispositions, cancers, and they shed like a brown blizzard. Still, she was my love and my sidekick for ten years. Cancer took her too...
RIP baby girl... She had a weird congenital defect too, a hook shaped kink in the end of her tail. Very noticeable. It is a very tight gene pool with the Tervs. VERY tight. Look at any pedigree back six or eight generations and you will see what I mean. Good luck in your search.
I have read some good advice for the buyer here and now some good advice to the breeders. If you do not want your bloodlines tampered with then simply do not sell any pups, cull them by whatever means that are palatable.
If I buy a dog or a chicken or hatch some eggs that I bought then I have all rights to do as I please with them. Neutered and spayed dogs end up in the pound just as well and backyard breeders seem to have no trouble selling pups unlike SQ breeders, so who is worse?
If I buy a dog or a chicken or hatch some eggs that I bought then I have all rights to do as I please with them. Neutered and spayed dogs end up in the pound just as well and backyard breeders seem to have no trouble selling pups unlike SQ breeders, so who is worse?
Quote:
1. I wasn't quoting your post,i believe we are talking about the same post and you are correct six is not responsible .
2. I disagree many more fit into the former.
3. I have no problem preserving a breed, if we followed the opinions of PETA where would we be? We need our pure breeds absolutely and I think we are of the same opinion here. The point I am trying to make is that show breeders should not automatically be given the title of responsible just because they move around the ring. I feel there is so much more to it, mainly preserve what the breed was intended for. Also I would like to see registries like akc take a more responsible role and not just collect litter fees and show fees.
And I will disagree with you on the six months, a great Pyrenees really needs to bond by 3 months, the breeder should have known this and offered that dog to someone else. But she did take 17 dogs to champion in one year, for whatever that is worth to the necks of my chickens, ducks and geese I don't know.
Re: #2 - how are you coming to this conclusion? Have you spent the last 20 years embroiled in the dog fancy? I have, and I will tell you that you can go to any given dog show and the majority of the dogs in rings go back to homes, not kennels.
#3 - I have no idea why peta is in this. I don't mean preserving the breedS, I mean preserving a breed in its original form and able to perform its function
#4 - there is no magic age or number for livestock bonding. A
Ny lgd breed with a correct temperament can become a working dog at ANY age. Any LGD with an improper temperament will fail at its job regardless of the age started.
1. I wasn't quoting your post,i believe we are talking about the same post and you are correct six is not responsible .
2. I disagree many more fit into the former.
3. I have no problem preserving a breed, if we followed the opinions of PETA where would we be? We need our pure breeds absolutely and I think we are of the same opinion here. The point I am trying to make is that show breeders should not automatically be given the title of responsible just because they move around the ring. I feel there is so much more to it, mainly preserve what the breed was intended for. Also I would like to see registries like akc take a more responsible role and not just collect litter fees and show fees.
And I will disagree with you on the six months, a great Pyrenees really needs to bond by 3 months, the breeder should have known this and offered that dog to someone else. But she did take 17 dogs to champion in one year, for whatever that is worth to the necks of my chickens, ducks and geese I don't know.
Re: #2 - how are you coming to this conclusion? Have you spent the last 20 years embroiled in the dog fancy? I have, and I will tell you that you can go to any given dog show and the majority of the dogs in rings go back to homes, not kennels.
#3 - I have no idea why peta is in this. I don't mean preserving the breedS, I mean preserving a breed in its original form and able to perform its function
#4 - there is no magic age or number for livestock bonding. A
Ny lgd breed with a correct temperament can become a working dog at ANY age. Any LGD with an improper temperament will fail at its job regardless of the age started.
Personally, i would not buy from that breeder..
Its NOT her dog once i pay for it. Just my opinion..
Thats why i like my cute fuzzy mutts..
I also have 2 pedigree persians(champion lines, big bucks)... breeder said we get the papers when she is fixed... they are fixed.. I never contacted the breeder for the papers. Because i could care less about papers, as i'm not breeding them..
BUT if i had wanted to breed them.. i could EASILY make big bucks selling those kittnes with no papers... because to look at them its CLEAR they would be purebred persians...
Even if i charged half of what the breeder charged me.. its still a lot of money...
Papers mean nothing to me, unless i planned to breed and SELL the pups for BIG bucks..
I dont need papers to tell me that my dog or cat is purebred.. just kinda dumb, IMO
Its NOT her dog once i pay for it. Just my opinion..
Thats why i like my cute fuzzy mutts..
I also have 2 pedigree persians(champion lines, big bucks)... breeder said we get the papers when she is fixed... they are fixed.. I never contacted the breeder for the papers. Because i could care less about papers, as i'm not breeding them..
BUT if i had wanted to breed them.. i could EASILY make big bucks selling those kittnes with no papers... because to look at them its CLEAR they would be purebred persians...
Even if i charged half of what the breeder charged me.. its still a lot of money...
Papers mean nothing to me, unless i planned to breed and SELL the pups for BIG bucks..
I dont need papers to tell me that my dog or cat is purebred.. just kinda dumb, IMO
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