Adding hens and rooster from different sources

[ebretzel]

Hello,

We are on our second year of backyard-chickening, and sadly lost half of our flock this week due to a crafty fox that snatched up our hens while they were free-ranging. We currently have 3 pullets (4 mo old) and a 1-year old hen left. Our #1 hen was unfortunately one of the casualties, so the flock has lost their leader.

I'm thinking a rooster might be helpful to keep a watch out for predators, and I found a young one locally that is looking for a good home and appears to have a good disposition. We'd also potentially like to add a few more pullets for a better ration but we would be getting the new ladies from a neighbor -- different source than the rooster.

My question is... add the rooster first and then introduce new hens later? Or add hens first and then add the rooster once they're all sorted out? Or is it OK to add them all at once? Or, add just the rooster now and get baby chicks in the spring? What would you recommend?

I know we are supposed to do a quarantine first for any new flock members, so we'd need advice on how to manage that as well with several birds coming from 2 different sources. Any feedback on how you've set up quarantine for new birds would be helpful.

Thanks!

 

[LRH97]

Sorry about your losses! I hate dealing with foxes. They will clean you out if you give them the chance. I think a nice-tempered rooster makes a wonderful addition to a flock. However, I have six boys running around with the flock and I still suffer the occasional loss. That being said, their protection against predators is limited. It doesn't really matter what order you add the new birds. Personally, I would do all at once. The pecking order will have to be re-sorted out either way. The important thing is the quarantine. New birds should be quarantined for at least two weeks before joining the flock. During this time, you should be observing them and watching for any type of abnormalities or symptoms of disease. They need to be housed away from your flock as well (at least about 12 yards away). I basically use a smaller chicken coop we built for this with an attached run. You could also use a small coop from a feed store (like Rural King etc.) or something off the internet. Something affordable, yet functional for temporary housing. If you go this route, you'll probably have to do something about a run. Most of these will make sufficient areas for eating and roosting, but will be too small to be cooped up in 24/7 until the quarantine period is over. Since they're coming from two different sources, it will be best to do two separate areas for quarantine.

To be perfectly honest, I add birds from other flocks as least often as I can. I usually opt to order chicks from hatcheries to replace any losses or for additions. Not saying that you shouldn't do it. That's just my personal preference and another option that you could put into consideration.

Also, if you want a good little security alarm, try guineas! (If you either don't have neighbors or they're cool) The days of someone (or something) coming up your driveway undetected would be over. I bumped up my guinea numbers this past spring and I've had fewer predator incidents than last year. I don't know if they don't like the racket they make when alarmed or if it's coincidence, but that's my experience. Hope this helps you!

 

[ebretzel]

Sorry about your losses! I hate dealing with foxes. They will clean you out if you give them the chance. I think a nice-tempered rooster makes a wonderful addition to a flock.

Also, if you want a good little security alarm, try guineas!

Thank you for your advice, I REALLY appreciate it! Losing the chickens has been horrible! Yes... we are debating about whether to just get more chicks in the spring time rather than introduce pullets. The trouble is waiting all that time for them to start laying! ;-)

As for your guineas, do you let them free-range all the time? Or do they have their own coop/run or share with chickens? We don't really have space to house another flock but I would consider adding a few in with chickens if they are compatible.

 

[LRH97]

Thank you for your advice, I REALLY appreciate it! Losing the chickens has been horrible! Yes... we are debating about whether to just get more chicks in the spring time rather than introduce pullets. The trouble is waiting all that time for them to start laying! ;-)

As for your guineas, do you let them free-range all the time? Or do they have their own coop/run or share with chickens? We don't really have space to house another flock but I would consider adding a few in with chickens if they are compatible.

Very welcome! I know your pain all to well. Predators are one of the few downsides to poultry keeping. I've always kept my guineas with the chickens. I raise the keets (babies) with a batch of chicks and introduce them into the chicken flock together with the other young birds. Unless a guinea hen wants to play momma, I usually oblige her then. Guineas can tend to be more "wild" then chickens, wanting to roost in trees and such. I think raising them young with chickens helps to tame them down a bit. They stay in their little group, but eat, sleep and range with the chickens no problem. They do make a hobby out of harassing the roosters every now and then, but no serious problems!

 

[Ridgerunner]

First let's talk quarantine, a very useful tool when used correctly. Chicken diseases and parasites can spread by them sharing drinking water, eating each other's poop (in the dirt when they peck at dirt), some vectors like mosquitoes or some of the creepy crawlies they eat (like grubs, slugs, or grasshoppers), or travel through the air. You can track diseases from one group to the other on your shoes. With a full quarantine the chickens would be kept so a breeze cannot transfer disease from one to another. You should change clothing (at least shoes) when going from one group to the other. Use different feed and water buckets, maybe even different feed storage containers.

Very very few of us have the facilities or the will to go this far and most justb don't have serious problems. The more you can separate them the more effective your quarantine. Any separation can help, it just depends on what the disease or parasite is.

Chickens sometimes develop flock immunities. They are exposed to the disease or even parasites and develop an immunity to it but can transmit it to other chickens. A good example is Coccidiosis. It's caused by a parasite but after exposure for two or three weeks they develop an immunity to that strain. No matter how long you quarantine them they will never show symptoms but they can infect other non-immune chickens. It's possible the stress of relocation will weaken the chickens enough that some might show some symptoms for some diseases but it's not likely. It's also possible that your current flock has a flock immunity and will infect the newcomers.

Where quarantine is especially effective is where the chickens have been exposed to other new chickens within the past month or so, like chickens coming from an auction or chicken swap where there are a lot of new chickens together. If new chickens have been added to the flock recently quarantine of chickens from that flock can be quite helpful. If the chickens come from a flock that has not been exposed to new chickens for the past month and if the owners would recognize and tell you about any diseases or parasites they have effectively been in quarantine.

That still does not handle the problem of flock immunity. To guard against this, you can put a potentially sacrificial chicken with the newcomers and see if any get sick. If the newcomers get sick and the sacrifice doesn't your flock has the problem. If the sacrifice gets sick and the newcomers don't, the newcomers are the problem. It's a good idea to check and maybe even treat newcomers for mites, lice, or worms before adding to your flock.

Many people add chickens from auctions, chicken stocks, or take chickens to shows and bring them back to mix with their flocks without quarantine and seldom experience any problems. Mites, lice, and worms are the most common when there is a problem. But without quarantine it's always possible you can bring in something that can wipe out your flock. Whether or not to quarantine and how you set it up is up to you. 30 days is a standard time if you do. Personally I don't add any chickens to the flock except the ones I hatch myself or I get from a reputable hatchery. I did add chicks from a feed store once.

As far as integration, just how old are they? If the cockerel is pretty mature and the pullets are laying, I'd just add them at the same time, maybe housing the pullets side by side a week or so before I let them mingle. With your amount of space that should go pretty well. Housing them for a week will help teach them where home is so they are a lot less likely to go walkabout when you let them out since it sounds like you free range.

If the pullets or the cockerel are immature, things change. Mature chickens outrank immature chickens in the pecking order and are sometimes not shy about enforcing those pecking order rights, especially if their personal space is violated. Just letting them mingle after housing them side by side for a week or more will still probably work, but things can get more dramatic. The cockerel with his hormones running wild will probably not act like a responsible adult, things can get a bit rough. The pullets will likely not want to sleep on the roosts with the adults and will probably look for a safer place to sleep. They will probably form a separate flock during the daytime too, avoiding the adults.

I integrate chicks a few times throughout the year, it's usually not that big of a problem, but my brooder is in the coop and I let my broody hens raise the chicks with the flock. My chicks grow up with the flock. Let us know what ages you are looking at and we can get more specific on what to expect and maybe how to go about it.

 

[ebretzel]

We currently have a 1 y/o welsummer hen and three 4 month old pullets (all different breeds). Since her other 3 "old" flockmates perished due to the fox, our older gal has been sleeping in a pile with the babes in one nesting box (she's always liked sleeping in the nesting box rather than perching) -- they seem to get along well. The rooster we are looking at is about 4 months old.

All the chickens we've had so far we've raised from chicks and were were successful integrating the young with the old so far... I think we put them together, but separate, for about 2 weeks when they were 2 months old or so and then let them mingle and they sorted things out.

We have a 12x12 coop with 5 nesting boxes attached a large fenced in run (maybe 800 sq ft or so?). Planning to set up quarantine in the garage, or next to garage which is at least 30 yards away from the coop/run area. It will probably not be a really large space for him but it would be the best we can do to keep him safe.

I would try keep our new roo separate for about a month before introducing him to the ladies... his current owner currently has him with pullets that were all raised in the same batch (he was supposed to be a girl!).

What do you think?

 

[ebretzel]

If the chickens come from a flock that has not been exposed to new chickens for the past month and if the owners would recognize and tell you about any diseases or parasites they have effectively been in quarantine.

Side note/question: so if the current owner has a small flock that have all been together since chicks with no new-comers, and has not experienced any problems/illnesses... then we don't need to do quarantine? Or should we still do it just to be safe?

 

[Ridgerunner]

All that sounds reasonable. I'm still not sure how old the cockerel is but at any age that should work. His maturity level and how the older hen especially accepts him will determine how exciting it gets down there, but that's just dealing with an adolescent. With that space they should manage.

Quarantine is a personal choice. It does add a level of safety even in the situation you describe. It's possible a wild bird or something could have infected that flock in the past few days. It's possible that could happen to your flock. That's a problem in dealing with living animals, you can never say never. But in that situation I'd consider him to have been in quarantine since they brought him home.

 

[lazy gardener]

In addition to the info provided by RR, my flock may be a silent carrier: they may carry a subclinical infection. One that does not make my birds sick, but none the less, my birds carry the pathogen, and can spread it to an other flock. Lets say that I give you a few birds from my flock... my birds are healthy, but are carriers. The stress of the move may or may not push my birds over the edge to the point that they start showing signs of illness, but they shed virus, which are then picked up by your flock. Your birds then get sick, or die b/c they have little resistance to the virus carried by my birds.

Now, lets look at NPIP certification. Suppose that I had my flock NPIP certified. That NPIP testing only covers a very few diseases: initially it was just for Pullorum. The program was later extended and refined to include testing and monitoring for Salmonella typhoid, Salmonella enteritidis, Mycoplasma gallisepticum, Mycoplasma synoviae, Mycoplasma meleagridis, and Avian Influenza.

So, if my flock was NPIP certified within the last year, it's entirely possible that any of the above diseases could have entered my flock from any number of vectors. There are also other diseases that are not tested for.

A NPIP certified flock imparts a false sense of security to the buyer.

For all of these reasons, I choose to keep a closed flock (as much as possible). I will occasionally bring in hatchery chicks, or eggs to hatch. But, I will not bring in birds from someone else's flock. Nor will I ever become NPIP certified, b/c I feel that it imparts a false sense of security.

The flip side of the closed flock coin is rarely discussed. That is: Maintaining your flock with strict culling criteria. Bring in new birds from various sources. And cull vigorously to remove weak animals. Beekissed maintains such a flock protocol. She has her back bone flock of White Rocks. She regularly brings in cull cockerels to fatten up for harvest. She also picks up cull flocks from various sources, often these birds are in poor condition. She fattens them up on free range and fermented feed. Keeps the best, and eats the rest. In all the years that she has been doing this, she has had the occasional diseased bird show up, but her back bone flock has never been infected.

 

[Mrs. K]

Do not take any birds you feel sorry for.

Quarantine is difficult, and if you don't do it right, well you may as well not do it. IMO 12 yards in no where near far enough. That is pretending to quarantine and getting lucky.

If you can see the birds and their set up where you are buying them from, it will give you a better idea. If they have chickens similar to you, where they are not going to swap meets, or otherwise mixing birds... well I ask, what are you risking? You could lose 3-4 birds. A pain, but not going to break the bank. Some people do get tremendously attached to their birds, and I would not add POL birds to those flocks.

Yes it is a real risk, but many of us have added a few here and there, and done just fine. If you have a large flock, say 50, that is a financial investment... don't risk it.

Mrs k