Adopting a beagle / Dotson puppy and concerned about interaction with my chickens

[ShrekDawg]

Looks Choco lab to me....I've got a Choco Lab/BC mix and this pup looks similar but with more white markings, a little longer hair.  Should be an interesting mix if it has any GP in it, though I don't see it there.  My Lab/BC dog has been an excellent chicken dog, completely trustworthy since the first time he was trained on them as a pup...he's 10 now....VERY smart dogs, so should be easy to train on the birds. 

Yeah, could definitely be choco lab/BC mix! I don't see GP either but I definitely see Border Collie and who knows what else. It should be interesting to see what breed this dog ends up being.

Either way, you are right, with the BC in there, he should be very smart and easy to train.

And he looks completely relaxed in both pictures which i think is a good sign at such a young age? In the second picture, he looks a little bit curious, but that's natural for being so young and having the bird so close. I would have been expecting at least one crazy jump at the birds picture so it seems he is a pretty calm puppy and with his mix should be smart and easy to train too. And not only that, but willing to please.

Some dogs are very smart but couldn't care less about pleasing.

Labs, if he is indeed Lab, live to please and very food motivated, BCs very intelligent and extremely handler oriented, so should be a good combo.

I didn't realize you had a Lab/BC. Is it you or someone else that has I think Jake and Ben? And one is a newish LGD?

I've always wanted a Lab/BC

also random question: is black dominant in dogs? Because it seems a lot of Lab/BCs are black and white

 

[Beekissed]

That is correct, i have only had grown dogs. So since I now work from home the training will be mainly my responsibility. Which is why I am trying to find out what to do, i really appreciate your feedback, i really hope i can successfully train her. If not i guess i will have to keep the apart

No worries...it can be done.

Quote:
It happens and it can happen every day of the year, day and day out, even with young dogs. A person just needs to know how to bring it about.

The first impression is the longest lasting impression. Get a chicken and bring it close to the pup and correct him when he gets excited over it. Even if he stares at it too long, give a correction. Don't give rewards when he looks away....too many signals, too confusing. Just work on showing him that he's not to get excited about the chicken....ever.

Here's a run down on how to get this done with a pup....I've trained two pups in this manner, one the Lab/BC mix at 5 mo. of age and the other, an Anatolian/Maremma/GP mix, at 2 mo. of age. They both guard my flock at this present time and neither dog has ever chased or harmed a chicken after this very minimal training and they are with a free range flock unsupervised 365/24/7. This is from a thread I posted to the other day for a lady who was getting a LGD pup for the first time.

Quote:

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I have a chocolate lab/ bully nice brown color..... Highly trainable.

Also, when you see the black and white, there are black and white border collies as well as the black labs. And I think brown BC to.

No worries...it can be done.

It happens and it can happen every day of the year, day and day out, even with young dogs. A person just needs to know how to bring it about.

The first impression is the longest lasting impression. Get a chicken and bring it close to the pup and correct him when he gets excited over it. Even if he stares at it too long, give a correction. Don't give rewards when he looks away....too many signals, too confusing. Just work on showing him that he's not to get excited about the chicken....ever.

Here's a run down on how to get this done with a pup....I've trained two pups in this manner, one the Lab/BC mix at 5 mo. of age and the other, an Anatolian/Maremma/GP mix, at 2 mo. of age. They both guard my flock at this present time and neither dog has ever chased or harmed a chicken after this very minimal training and they are with a free range flock unsupervised 365/24/7. This is from a thread I posted to the other day for a lady who was getting a LGD pup for the first time.

I've wanted to tell you for a while.... how much I would appreciate seeing your rooster training explanation in an article in the learning center!

It would be so much easier to reference, than trying to find threads I haven't participated in, in a while and remembering which one it happened to be.

And the pup training might be awesome as well.

Your posts are well thought out with lots of valuable info as well as some creativity, backed by your years of personal experience, and come across in a way that makes sense and people can understand!

 

[ShrekDawg]

Hmmm that makes sense. So maybe because black is so common in both breeds it comes out more?

And yeah, BCs come in sooo many colors!

They come in black and white, as we all know, but I think they also come in chocolate (or is it liver?) And white, red and white (are those the same), and I think they even come in merle! As well as solid colors (I think, don't quote me on that LOL), and there's even golden/yellow/blonde ones. And of course longer, more showy coat, and short, working coat. It's crazy the amount of variety. Especially when most people only think of the black and white fluffy ones lol

 

[Beekissed]

I have a chocolate lab/ bully nice brown color..... Highly trainable.

Also, when you see the black and white, there are black and white border collies as well as the black labs. And I think brown BC to.

I've wanted to tell you for a while.... how much I would appreciate seeing your rooster training explanation in an article in the learning center!

It would be so much easier to reference, than trying to find threads I haven't participated in, in a while and remembering which one it happened to be.

And the pup training might be awesome as well.

Your posts are well thought out with lots of valuable info as well as some creativity, backed by your years of personal experience, and come across in a way that makes sense and people can understand!

Thank you! You made my day with your post!

I'll try to do an article one day on the roosters....it's hard to convey that training to someone without a video, though. Wish I had an unruly rooster to school so I could vid it for folks!

The ones I raise myself are always mannerly gents, so I don't get to use that schooling too often, though I did some measure of training on a whole pen(13) roosters a few years back, all ages, sizes and breeds I had gotten for free for the purpose of butchering.

Within three days of being here they were all standing back politely at feeding time and I rarely heard any crowing from that pen while they were here....I could get down, turn my back and do anything I wanted in that pen without any negative behavior from any of those roosters...and all it took was a red bucket to manage all of that. It's kind of fun to explore how and what one can do in the way of animal behavior modification.

For the OP, per request....my Choc. Lab/Blue Merle Border Collie mix boy, now 10 yrs old....I can't seem to find any pics from when he was a pup. I think that computer where they were stored had crashed and I lost several years of pics in that. His white merling started showing up around year 2...before that he was solid brown with a small white patch on his chest.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Very handsome boy, @Beekissed!

Is he mixed with something else though or maybe it's just the angle of the pictures? Just wondering because he looks huge! Lol

 

[Beekissed]

Very handsome boy, @Beekissed !

Is he mixed with something else though or maybe it's just the angle of the pictures? Just wondering because he looks huge! Lol

Nope, just Lab and Blue Merle BC. He's only about 55 lbs., so kind of small for a Lab. His father went about 80# from the looks of him and his mother maybe 60#...but both of them were a tad overweight.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Very handsome boy, [@=/u/6459/Beekissed]@Beekissed[/@]!


Is he mixed with something else though or maybe it's just the angle of the pictures? Just wondering because he looks huge! Lol

Nope, just Lab and Blue Merle BC.  He's only about 55 lbs., so kind of small for a Lab.  His father went about 80# from the looks of him and his mother maybe 60#...but both of them were a tad overweight. 

Wow, that is pretty small for a Lab! Especially a male. Must just be the angle of the pictures then - that one from below he looks like a wolf! Haha maybe it's his build too? Cause he seems very solidly built (not to be confused with fat cause he looks to be a great weight) and not dainty and thin like some smaller, lighter dogs! Anyways, very handsome. As is the pup!

Also, question. How do you correct from inside a fence? E collar or verbal? Because Gator has become very good with the chickens and leaves them alone mostly and doesn't even pounce at the fence anymore but when I go inside he seems to get jealous or something if I am in there long enough. Not if I do usual chores like collect eggs or change the food, etc. But if I start talking to them and spending a lot of time in there. Like last week I was taking pictures which I never do and he got jealous. Or if I let him out at night for his last bathroom break and he wants me to hurry up so we can play, he won't really pounce at them but gets a little sassy ha. I don't mind that as much but sometimes it takes longer or I don't to play. Usually ignoring works though.

Anyway, he's a good boy and usually when I tell him no or leave it he stops doing it but I'd like him to not pounce at all. Stop it before it starts, you know? Is there a way to fix it or do I just need to start spending more time with them so he gets bored?

 

[Beekissed]

Wow, that is pretty small for a Lab! Especially a male. Must just be the angle of the pictures then - that one from below he looks like a wolf! Haha maybe it's his build too? Cause he seems very solidly built (not to be confused with fat cause he looks to be a great weight) and not dainty and thin like some smaller, lighter dogs! Anyways, very handsome. As is the pup!

Also, question. How do you correct from inside a fence? E collar or verbal? Because Gator has become very good with the chickens and leaves them alone mostly and doesn't even pounce at the fence anymore but when I go inside he seems to get jealous or something if I am in there long enough. Not if I do usual chores like collect eggs or change the food, etc. But if I start talking to them and spending a lot of time in there. Like last week I was taking pictures which I never do and he got jealous. Or if I let him out at night for his last bathroom break and he wants me to hurry up so we can play, he won't really pounce at them but gets a little sassy ha. I don't mind that as much but sometimes it takes longer or I don't to play. Usually ignoring works though.

Anyway, he's a good boy and usually when I tell him no or leave it he stops doing it but I'd like him to not pounce at all. Stop it before it starts, you know? Is there a way to fix it or do I just need to start spending more time with them so he gets bored?

Those sentences in bold? That should never have been allowed at all...not even the first time. And "leaves them alone...mostly" should also not be allowed. A dog should NEVER be allowed to grow excited about the chickens, not for one single moment. That's the first and most important thing to understand about dogs and chickens. The dog must leave them alone ALWAYS..not mostly. If the dog doesn't respect you when you start that training, you are doomed to failure. First, he has to mind you right away and always or there are serious consequences...especially in regard to the chickens.

What you see as jealousy is not jealousy...that dog currently OWNS you, he is your pack leader. When you do things he doesn't want you to do, he reacts to that and tries to get you to comply to what he DOES want you to do...people mistakenly think that the dog is jealous or that he is protective, but it's not that at all...he's just doing his job as the current pack leader. That order has to be switched or you will never be able to train him effectively on anything and especially on the chickens. Every single dog has a prey drive, some more than others but they all have it. In order to turn off that prey drive around chickens, he needs an effective pack leader that directs the pack on what they are allowed to do, when they are allowed to do it and where.

I'd work on becoming a pack leader first. I know a lot of folks don't like Cesar Milan, but he's the only man I've ever seen who really understands dogs and understands the pack relationship. I'd watch a truckload of his vids...you can find them all over YT. Pay special attention to his vids on establishing pack leadership. I had never seen any of his vids when I trained Jake, but when I did watch Cesar in action, I realized he was basically doing what I had been doing with Jake...and watching his vids gave me even more good ideas along that line. I've utilized a few things I saw Cesar do and they work like a charm~mainly leash work and feeding time training.

Once you get that under your belt, it won't matter if you are inside the fence or outside the fence, when you talk, he will listen much better than he does now....and he'll likely just wait patiently until you get done doing whatever you are doing.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Wow, that is pretty small for a Lab! Especially a male. Must just be the angle of the pictures then - that one from below he looks like a wolf! Haha maybe it's his build too? Cause he seems very solidly built (not to be confused with fat cause he looks to be a great weight) and not dainty and thin like some smaller, lighter dogs! Anyways, very handsome. As is the pup!


Also, question. How do you correct from inside a fence? E collar or verbal? Because Gator has become very good with the chickens and leaves them alone mostly and doesn't even pounce at the fence anymore but when I go inside he seems to get jealous or something if I am in there long enough. Not if I do usual chores like collect eggs or change the food, etc. But if I start talking to them and spending a lot of time in there. Like last week I was taking pictures which I never do and he got jealous. Or if I let him out at night for his last bathroom break and he wants me to hurry up so we can play, he won't really pounce at them but gets a little sassy ha. I don't mind that as much but sometimes it takes longer or I don't to play. Usually ignoring works though.


Anyway, he's a good boy and usually when I tell him no or leave it he stops doing it but I'd like him to not pounce at all. Stop it before it starts, you know? Is there a way to fix it or do I just need to start spending more time with them so he gets bored?

Those sentences in bold?  That should never have been allowed at all...not even the first time.  And "leaves them alone...mostly" should also not be allowed.   A dog should NEVER be allowed to grow excited about the chickens, not for one single moment.  That's the first and most important thing to understand about dogs and chickens.  The dog must leave them alone ALWAYS..not mostly.   If the dog doesn't respect you when you start that training, you are doomed to failure.  First, he has to mind you right away and always or there are serious consequences...especially in regard to the chickens. 

What you see as jealousy is not jealousy...that dog currently OWNS you, he is your pack leader.  When you do things he doesn't want you to do, he reacts to that and tries to get you to comply to what he DOES want you to do...people mistakenly think that the dog is jealous or that he is protective, but it's not that at all...he's just doing his job as the current pack leader.  That order has to be switched or you will never be able to train him effectively on anything and especially on the chickens.  Every single dog has a prey drive, some more than others but they all have it.  In order to turn off that prey drive around chickens, he needs an effective pack leader that directs the pack on what they are allowed to do, when they are allowed to do it and where. 

I'd work on becoming a pack leader first.  I know a lot of folks don't like Cesar Milan, but he's the only man I've ever seen who really understands dogs and understands the pack relationship.  I'd watch a truckload of his vids...you can find them all over YT.  Pay special attention to his vids on establishing pack leadership.  I had never seen any of his vids when I trained Jake, but when I did watch Cesar in action, I realized he was basically doing what I had been doing with Jake...and watching his vids gave me even more good ideas along that line.  I've utilized a few things I saw Cesar do and they work like a charm~mainly leash work and feeding time training. 

Once you get that under your belt, it won't matter if you are inside the fence or outside the fence, when you talk, he will listen much better than he does now....and he'll likely just wait patiently until you get done doing whatever you are doing. 

Thanks, I'll work with him! He also lays on the floor grumbling and demanding attention sometimes lately. But of course I usually find it cute and cave and give it to him. Which makes him do it more because it works. And now he gets louder and sometimes escalates to barks. I know I need to ignore him but he's cute. Although now it's annoying. Sometimes he stands in front of the TV and does it too.

But all this to say, he's actually turned into a great boy and has calmed down A LOT (he's turning 5 in March, he used to be a terror) and he sleeps almost the whole day, you practically have to drag him out of bed sometimes, but when he wants something, he DEMANDS it.

But he actually listens to me pretty well. I tried positive reinforcement for a while (with some correction i should add) which actually works well for him because he's a sensitive dog and he can do some pretty advanced obedience and tricks (he can open and close doors now) buuuuuttttt... I admit that I'm not really consistent. Sometimes something is not allowed and sometimes its cute and I cave.

My brother is almost too strict and is always almost yelling at him and also is not consistent at all, he'll let him climb up and kiss him then yell at him for it the very next second.

And so I guess he mostly needs consistancy and rules? And of course being knocked down a peg.

He also sleeps in my dads bed (brother never lets him do that when he takes him).

Amd my dad (and practically everyone) is constantly fawning over him and petting him and talking to him whenever they see him and as a puppy we tried to ignore his cries but ended up taking turns going down and sleeping with him.

So I think maybe we ruined him....

But do you think if we start ignoring him and stop fawning over him every second while also establishing rules and who's in charge he can change?

And maybe exercise? He doesn't get exercise.