All chickens skinny help!

[tatertot]

where do I get seeds for fodder

 

[dawg53]

I understand where you're coming from. Despite my own personal preferences for my flock, I accept that not everyone will want to do it the same with theirs. We do carry multiple commercial products, from Fishzole and FishCillin to pen G, Tylan injectable and dissolveable to tetracycline and sulfamethodixine; probiotics and electrolytes, Wazine, Safeguard (horse and goat), Metronidazole and Valbazen, Tiamulin (common for treating blackhead in turkeys, discovered during my own debacle).... I point them to every option we have, because honestly, we make more on commercial stuff than on DE and other natural remedies. A lot of people don't believe in natural stuff, and I understand why. I used to look at people suggesting them like they were stuck in the hippy days. And to avoid [/]getting[/] that look, I always point customers to commercial products first. If I don't know what to suggest, I get online or ask others I know who are more experienced and can point ME in the right direction. We offer special order also, so if they want a certain brand/size/quantity/etc, we order it for them.

I only started dabbling in natural stuff almost 2 years ago, and it was a slow process - I started with switching to organic feed simply because it's overall better for them, and now I'm up to the whole DE and ACV thing, with a couple of new developments along the way. Sometimes I do have to use something I can't find in a kitchen. I've had CRD run through my flock many times, so I had to use antibiotics. If I bring in some chickens with a massive worm infestation, I have Valbazen available and I use it, just out of concern for their livelihood. I don't mind using commercial products when I HAVE to, I don't disagree with them entirely - simply prefer the alternate route.

You got lucky treating blackhead in your turkey with tiamulin aka denagard...which is normally used for treating MG/MS/MM in poultry and diseases in swine. It is also expensive. Blackhead is deadly in turkeys, not so much in chickens, and this is why chickens and turkeys should be separated. In an answer to my previous post I posed you; the cecal worm is the carrier of the protozoa that causes blackhead. Always treat for the deadly protozoa first (which you did,) then go after the cecal worm...the protozoal host, using a wormer such as valbazen or safeguard. Normally 500mg metronidazole once a day for 5 days treats blackhead in turkeys, 250mg for chickens.
Like I mentioned, your soil is contaminated with worm eggs. Birds peck the ground constantly and will pick up worm eggs directly or indirectly completing the worms lifecycle all over again. This is why a regular worming schedule is recommended. Worms weaken a chickens immune system opening the door for all kinds of diseases infecting a flock. As you know, diseases quickly spread throughout the flock requiring antibiotics or culling sick birds...all the while worms were/are the root cause.
Your store is well stocked, more so than some of the feed stores I've been in around here. Folks who have been farming for years know what's best for their livestock...experience...they know what works and doesnt work, that simple.

 

[Michael Apple]

You got lucky treating blackhead in your turkey with tiamulin aka denagard...which is normally used for treating MG/MS/MM in poultry and diseases in swine. It is also expensive. Blackhead is deadly in turkeys, not so much in chickens, and this is why chickens and turkeys should be separated. In an answer to my previous post I posed you; the cecal worm is the carrier of the protozoa that causes blackhead. Always treat for the deadly protozoa first (which you did,) then go after the cecal worm...the protozoal host, using a wormer such as valbazen or safeguard. Normally 500mg metronidazole once a day for 5 days treats blackhead in turkeys, 250mg for chickens.
Like I mentioned, your soil is contaminated with worm eggs. Birds peck the ground constantly and will pick up worm eggs directly or indirectly completing the worms lifecycle all over again. This is why a regular worming schedule is recommended. Worms weaken a chickens immune system opening the door for all kinds of diseases infecting a flock. As you know, diseases quickly spread throughout the flock requiring antibiotics or culling sick birds...all the while worms were/are the root cause.
Your store is well stocked, more so than some of the feed stores I've been in around here. Folks who have been farming for years know what's best for their livestock...experience...they know what works and doesnt work, that simple.

The nasty Heterakis worms pass the Histomonas protozoa in eggs while in the ceaca. From there, damage is done and they migrate to the liver. I've seen ceacal worms in droppings before, and it was only because the sun shined brightly upon a fresh dropping that day. They were 1/16" to 1/8" long.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/poultry/histomoniasis/overview_of_histomoniasis_in_poultry.html

 

[casportpony]

I've had to treat more than my fair share of peafowl, turkeys and chickens for blackhead in the last few years. With a combo of metronidazole, Safeguard and Baytril I've been able to reduce mortality quite significantly. AS soon as I see one looking "off" it gets metronidazole at about ~25mg per pound for five days *and* Safeguard at 23mg per pound once (repeat in 10 days). If it doesn't show improvement in 2 days I start it on Baytril at 9mg per pound for five days.

Some may use tiamulin to treat blackhead, but the better choice per vets and literature is still dimetridiazole, metronidazole and maybe Ronidazole, but all of those are banned in food animals.

While tiamulin might have some effect on the blackhead protozoa, it will have *no* effect on the probable E. coli infection. For that you need something like Amoxicillin, Amoxicillin/Clavulanic acid (Clavamox or Augmentin), enrofloxacin (Baytril), ciprofloxacin (cipro).

http://www.octagon-services.co.uk/articles/poultry/histomonosis.pdf


These are a cecal worms that I really had to look for:




This is the damage they did:


Also had to look very hard for this one:




-Kathy

 

[chicksmom30]

Are you worming your chickens in spring and fall? That is usually a necessary thing to do. I use Ivermectin drops 6 on the back shoulder blade area for med/lg size and 4 drops for bantam size. Kills gape worms and internal parasites also lice.
Also with all the weight loss you could have a coccida infection. Are their combs loosing some of the red color and turning white? If so then there is a medicine for this called Corid" you should be able to get it at a feed store or on line of course. A 5 day treatment in their water should fix them up.
Hope this helps

 

[casportpony]

Studies show that ivermectin is no longer an effective poultry wormer. It also doesn't kill feather lice, I know, I tried topically, orally and by injection and I saw zero reduction in lice.

-Kathy

 

[Michael Apple]

The protozoa carried by cecal worm eggs:

 

[katbriar]

Michael Apple, dawg53, and casportpony: thanks so much for the detailed information. It's very much appreciated!

Seminolewind: I'm sorry to hear about your silkie. You are good to have figured out what you needed to change and act on it going forward.

We have horses and are used to alternating paste dewormers every 3-4 months. I just wasn't sure how to start or which were best with all the considerations that needed to be made for the birds. I bought Wazine, but never used it once I heard about the possibility of overload. And interesting that the dosage per pound is higher for the birds.

This is great advice, and so very clear for someone like me that needs to start at the beginning. Thanks again everyone!

 

[Michael Apple]

You're welcome. People often underestimate the damage strains of Coccidiosis can do. Here is an animated example of what happens to an intestinal wall:

Here is a cecal strain of Coccidiosis in 2 parts:

 

[casportpony]

Here are some graphic necropsy pictures that I took of a neighbors peacock:


Liver and cecal pouches


Contents of cecal pouch - black liquid poop with pus, NOT normal!


Inside of cecal pouch




Liver with the blackhead spots and I think the black edges are necrotic

-Kathy