Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[OSUman]

Quote:
I don't have any lavender birds around, so I don't have experience with them. I can say that while judging lav birds I have seen plenty that are sun beached. I would also say that it depends on what is in their background...... but because it is a light color it appears that they are very prone to changes in color caused by the sun.
Self blue will change color from the sun pretty quickly and it looks like lav. (some folks say lav is different than self blue though) When black is introduced to a white bird the offspring don't usually get brassy, so it would seem that dominant black may be a good way to reduce some of the sun bleaching. Black will fade in direct sun. Your car will fade in direct sun. The effects of the sun on color is pretty awesome......

Walt

I've been told that homozygous Silver will not show yellowing from sun or diet. Is this not correct?

I've also been told that lavender, blue [also, and probably more properly, called Andalusia blue, or better yet laced blue], and self blue are three seperate colors. My limited breeding experience has confirmed that I do have the incomplete dominate gene called [by some] self blue in my Ameraucanas and some could easily be mistaken for lav in appearance. I would also have to say, in my limited experience, that I've never seen a Blue Ameraucana that matched the description given in the SOP. I think B/B/S Ameraucanas would have to carry PG/PG to be the proper color, but I've only begun to attempt to breed it in an EE; and that more because the bird with the body I seek carries PG under black and the pullets happen to be blue.

Self Blue is a Phenotypic description of the Lavender gene diluting a Self Black bird. Self means one solid color. Lavender is also in Porcelain coloring and in some strains of Coronation Sussex.

 

[Illia]

Self Blue and Lavender are the same.

Andalusia Blue and Blue are the same thing, different from Self Blue or Lavender.


A good blue does indeed need to carry Pg/Pg do have the laced effect.

 

[OSUman]

Quote:
I think it would be cool to admit a columbian blue too like the Blue Leghorns of England look, but theyre supposed to be self blue but with the hetrozygous blue gene.
http://www.theleghornclub.com/PhotosBlue.asp

 

[Tailfeathers]

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WMR, I was waiting to see some pics of those males but didn't so thought I'd pop in now and quickly give my two-cents worth. As a WBS breeder, I would recommend picking one trait (or two at the most) out and culling for that until you have that problem corrected. Body color is the last thing I'll cull for. Obviously the bird should have good type (i.e. medium length to the back, nice arched neck, tail at 45 degrees, etc.) but I would also work on getting nice, small, tight, well-formed peacombs if you don't have them. I look at their leg color and especially their eye color. And don't forget about the weight. I'm working on that now myself. Lastly, when it does come to body color, I'd pick, again, one or two at most things to work on. I've been pretty successful at getting rid of all the brown/red in the males tails. And, the males beards are almost fully colored now - black in the Wheaten, blue in the BW.

Now, having said all that, of course you know that you can't just look at the male himself but must consider what you keep as to what will a particular bird produce in the way of offspring. It may be that I will keep a lesser looking male (at least for breeding) because of what he'll throw over to the female chicks he produces. I am even considering going to a dual-line breeding but haven't decided for sure yet.

This is why I would strongly recommend sitting down and putting a breeding plan on paper if you have not already done so. Start by listing a set of goals - specific items that you want to improve on. Then prioritize them. From there you can build a specifc plan for breeding specific birds. If they aren't already toe-punched, then I would strongly recommend using some form of ID that can't be lost. Put specific numbered males over specific numbered females, ID that mating as a breeding pen, then right the # of that pen on the egg and ID the chick accordingly. I prefer toe-punching. You can get up to 16 different combinations that way. Any more than that I find unmanageable anyways.

From there you simply must keep meticulous records. By choosing only one or two traits at a time and keeping meticulous records, I believe you will find yourself making much faster progress in a much shorter period of time. Cull mercilessly and before long you will see significant results.

Best Wishes with your WBS Ameraucanas. They need a lot of work. They're the best variety of Ameraucana (in my biased and humble opinion of course) and perhaps we will soon see them on Champion Row!

God Bless,

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
I agree with you on that Illia, but there are plenty of people who would say that we are wrong. Their contention is that the two are really not the same. That is one of their positions of why lavender should be used instead of self blue in the SOP.

Walt

 

[jeremy]

What makes people think they are different? I've always thought they were the same, too.

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
WMR, I was waiting to see some pics of those males but didn't so thought I'd pop in now and quickly give my two-cents worth. As a WBS breeder, I would recommend picking one trait (or two at the most) out and culling for that until you have that problem corrected. Body color is the last thing I'll cull for. Obviously the bird should have good type (i.e. medium length to the back, nice arched neck, tail at 45 degrees, etc.) but I would also work on getting nice, small, tight, well-formed peacombs if you don't have them. I look at their leg color and especially their eye color. And don't forget about the weight. I'm working on that now myself. Lastly, when it does come to body color, I'd pick, again, one or two at most things to work on. I've been pretty successful at getting rid of all the brown/red in the males tails. And, the males beards are almost fully colored now - black in the Wheaten, blue in the BW.

Now, having said all that, of course you know that you can't just look at the male himself but must consider what you keep as to what will a particular bird produce in the way of offspring. It may be that I will keep a lesser looking male (at least for breeding) because of what he'll throw over to the female chicks he produces. I am even considering going to a dual-line breeding but haven't decided for sure yet.

This is why I would strongly recommend sitting down and putting a breeding plan on paper if you have not already done so. Start by listing a set of goals - specific items that you want to improve on. Then prioritize them. From there you can build a specifc plan for breeding specific birds. If they aren't already toe-punched, then I would strongly recommend using some form of ID that can't be lost. Put specific numbered males over specific numbered females, ID that mating as a breeding pen, then right the # of that pen on the egg and ID the chick accordingly. I prefer toe-punching. You can get up to 16 different combinations that way. Any more than that I find unmanageable anyways.

From there you simply must keep meticulous records. By choosing only one or two traits at a time and keeping meticulous records, I believe you will find yourself making much faster progress in a much shorter period of time. Cull mercilessly and before long you will see significant results.

Best Wishes with your WBS Ameraucanas. They need a lot of work. They're the best variety of Ameraucana (in my biased and humble opinion of course) and perhaps we will soon see them on Champion Row!

God Bless,

Good post!

Walt

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Quote:
I agree with you on that Illia, but there are plenty of people who would say that we are wrong. Their contention is that the two are really not the same. That is one of their positions of why lavender should be used instead of self blue in the SOP.

Walt

Right. I have hatched a couple of blue chicks from a couple of different sources that were an all over light blue with no lacing, and no darker coloring on the head, etc. I.E. "self" blue, not lavender.

 

[SteveH]

Quote:

Self Blue and Lavender are the same.

Andalusia Blue and Blue are the same thing, different from Self Blue or Lavender.


A good blue does indeed need to carry Pg/Pg do have the laced effect.

You've confused me again Illia. If your knowledge and experience of Blue Ameraucanas a few weeks ago was that they should not have laceing, why is it you now say they must carry Pg/Pg?​

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Quote:
Which is where so much of the confusion comes in. The APA has dubbed the lavender variety in several breeds as "self blue" which is incorrect by definition. AND why the ABC wants the term "lavender", aside from the fact that the gene that causes the coloring is actually called the "lavender" gene.

By definition the term "self" means that the bird is all one solid color.