Ameraucana thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds

[jerryse]

oops

 

[rainbowchick]

Would this rooster be worth looking at as a breeding rooster?  https://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/4921802307.html 

Looks like it's been called for... Pending pick up on Monday. If you're still interested, I'll let you know if it falls through.

 

[csr326]

This is the only thing I have an issue with.....whether the bird is blue or black has nothing to do with the base color....if you change this to read same base color, and change your example to read base gold color and base silver instead of black and blue, then we are on the same page...I have read and posted the link by the founding breeders before it was removed and from the site and agree with it...best blues from base silver, best blacks from base gold... but I don't think that the base colors gold and silvers are the same gene as the sex linked gold and silver....still working on understanding that...

I think you and I read the same post, by the wording they made it seem it is sexlinked, and it makes sense. Since we know gold and silver are sexlinked.Since they said use the daughter thats the same color of her sire, cause she will inherit the same base color as him it sounds like it is sex link.

 

[tigercreek]

I think you and I read the same post, by the wording they made it seem it is sexlinked, and it makes sense. Since we know gold and silver are sexlinked.Since they said use the daughter thats the same color of her sire, cause she will inherit the same base color as him it sounds like it is sex link.

We did most likely read the same 'e' locus discussion....what I am not sure of is if the gold and silver base color gene they are talking about is the one that is sex linked???...there are two gold and two silver genes, but only one of each is sex link gene...as my limited understanding has it.....I'm not sure which we are talking about as being the base color gene, the sexlinked one, or the non sexlinked one? Maybe Jerry can help????

 

[csr326]

We did most likely read the same 'e' locus discussion....what I am not sure of is if the gold and silver base color gene they are talking about is the one that is sex linked???...there are two gold and two silver genes, but only one of each is sex link gene...as my limited understanding has it.....I'm not sure which we are talking about as being the base color gene, the sexlinked one, or the non sexlinked one? Maybe Jerry can help????

Here is something I just found on the ABC, I think John and Max make a good point.

"I believe it is best to not breed blues and blacks together, if that is what the "bb" stands for. The best blacks will carry gold, while the best splash and blue birds will carry silver. Also, to get the best lacing on blues you will want to breed blue to blue. Christie started a great topic on this.
For blue birds cull the splash and blue birds that show any gold. Take the best splash (silvery...no gold) male(s) and put him over your best blue (laced if you have any) females. Keep only the pullets from this mating. They will only carry silver, due to it being sex-linked. Use that best splash male over them and all the offspring should be pure for silver.
If you have to go back to an outcross using black be sure to only use black females and then only keep the pullets to breed from in your blue and/or splash project(s). This is also true when an outcross to black is needed to improve size, egg color, feather quality, etc. of lavender strains.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 05:40:15 PM by John »"




http://ameraucana.org/forum/index.php?topic=2076.0

 

[MrsBachbach]

tigercreek you are correct, I should have been more specific.

I should have stated this was more of an opinion than fact. I believe from conversations I've had with other breeders, is that the best blues are silver based and best blacks are gold based. I have read these statements from two founding members of the breed. And to me it makes sense from a genetic point of view.

And yes the only flaw is leakage not conformation, I noticed that a lot of leakage is coming from BBS breeding from all over. I suspect that crossing the incorrect base colors MIGHT be the problem. Again this is my personal opinion.

But I do stand by what I said about using the daughters who are the same color as their sire. Since they will completely inherit the base color gene from their sire and not dam.

The problem is likely that people who do happen to obtain chicks or birds from someone does not take the time to identify the culprit hens. It is the hens that pass on the leakage, but don't show it themselves. You have to raise some cockerals out from your hens to eliminate it from your flock. You can have some clean males and breed them to your hens, but that won't guarantee clean birds because the hens are the culprits. So, identify the hens and don't use them for breeding.

Yes, I've read about using the same color hen as the sire. My question is does the same hold true for males? Would it be desirable to use the same color male as the dam? Or in that case it makes no difference?

 

[MrsBachbach]

Here is something I just found on the ABC, I think John and Max make a good point.

"I believe it is best to not breed blues and blacks together, if that is what the "bb" stands for.  The best blacks will carry gold, while the best splash and blue birds will carry silver.  Also, to get the best lacing on blues you will want to breed blue to blue.  Christie started a great topic on this.

For blue birds cull the splash and blue birds that show any gold.  Take the best splash (silvery...no gold) male(s) and put him over your best blue (laced if you have any) females.  Keep only the pullets from this mating.  They will only carry silver, due to it being sex-linked.  Use that best splash male over them and all the offspring should be pure for silver. 

If you have to go back to an outcross using black be sure to only use black females and then only keep the pullets to breed from in your blue and/or splash project(s).  This is also true when an outcross to black is needed to improve size, egg color, feather quality, etc. of lavender strains.   
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 05:40:15 PM by John »"




http://ameraucana.org/forum/index.php?topic=2076.0

My quesion is how do you identify whether your blues or splash carry gold or silver? I've read the opinions on blacks, but nothing on blues or splash. What would give you clue in chicks or as adults?

 

[jerryse]

We did most likely read the same 'e' locus discussion....what I am not sure of is if the gold and silver base color gene they are talking about is the one that is sex linked???...there are two gold and two silver genes, but only one of each is sex link gene...as my limited understanding has it.....I'm not sure which we are talking about as being the base color gene, the sexlinked one, or the non sexlinked one? Maybe Jerry can help????

I am not much help on this . It confuses me also . I just go for no leakage and really don't care what is the cause . Black should have a green sheen and not purple .

 

[csr326]

The problem is likely that people who do happen to obtain chicks or birds from someone does not take the time to identify the culprit hens. It is the hens that pass on the leakage, but don't show it themselves. You have to raise some cockerals out from your hens to eliminate it from your flock. You can have some clean males and breed them to your hens, but that won't guarantee clean birds because the hens are the culprits. So, identify the hens and don't use them for breeding.

Yes, I've read about using the same color hen as the sire. My question is does the same hold true for males? Would it be desirable to use the same color male as the dam? Or in that case it makes no difference?

MrsBachbach

From what Ive studied and read is that Silver and Gold base colors is sexlinked, which means they are found on the "Z" chromosome.

Males have two copies "ZZ" and females only one "ZW". Females will always and forever receive their only "Z" chromosome from their father. And the males will receive one"Z" from Dad, and one "Z" from Mom. (in chickens females determine the sex of the embryo)

Example: If you breed Gold base colored black rooster with a Silver based blue hen. The resulting males will inherit both Gold and Silver genes, regardless if it comes out blue or black. If a blue daughter is born she will be blue with a gold base foundation. And a black daughter will be just like her father.

(Only sexlinked traits can only be passed down from father to daughter, this inheritance would cause the chick to be pure for that trait.)
Example: blue legs is sexlinked, so a rooster with blue legs bred to a white or yellow legged hen would result in the daughters having pure blue legs like dad, the males would be born with white legs. But you have to wait 4-8 weeks to determine this when the leg color changes.

 

[csr326]

My quesion is how do you identify whether your blues or splash carry gold or silver? I've read the opinions on blacks, but nothing on blues or splash. What would give you clue in chicks or as adults?

I was told this by another breeder just now, and I agree from what Ive seen with leakage on blues and splashes.

"blues will have that reddish cast to their feathers is they carry gold. On the splash most cock birds will leak gold, I've never seen a leaky pullet from the splash."