Ameraucauna Vrs Easter Egger! Such a "Raw Nerve" with some folks!

[Illia]

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GOTCHA!! LOL Good lord, if I had to make up papers for every chick I hatched, I'd be personally responsible for the destruction of a small forest every spring!

Indeed. I've had people ask me before if I have to keep pedigrees or papers on my birds. Oh man. . . .

 

[8ROYALS]

Why can't we just put the word 'Cross' after the breed names. Isn't that what they do with all other livestock? I grew up showing swine, steer and lamb crosses. I think this would solve alot of problems. And yes I knew people who would show their animals in the wrong breed, because of the genes that animal had. May their should be a thread that list the names of people who mis-repesent their livestock as somehting it is not. Then that would protect the buyer and other 'pure' breed people. Of course you would want to first address the issue with the seller so they cold correct themselves. The big guestion becomes who is going to decide that someone is mis-representing themselves on purpose and by accident. How are you going to decide? Maybe money back to the seller? I don't know. I do know that their were certain sellers/breeders that we never did business with again and word of mouth hurts. But I still like the 'Cross' part. Think about it. It settles so many issues, plus having that at the shows would solve alot of the problems as well. I am off the soap-box now. Someone else can step up....LOL

 

[dsqard]

I agree that it would be impossible to do it this way with chickens. A horse gestates for 11 months. In that time a chicken could possibly hatch out 8 or more clutches of chicks. But I do wonder if breeders (of any breed) would be interested in working out some kind of system I just don't really have the imagination big enough to think of what it could be.

 

[Muggsmagee]

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I think a chicken registry would be a logistical nightmare! Can you imagine the amount of birds to keep track of? That is why there is the APA. There is a "type" to follow with each breed, and therefore these breeds are bred to a standard. Even though I love my mixed breeds and hatchery birds...if I want to be a serious breeder, I'm going to acquire my stock from people who are involved with their clubs and show their chickens...in sanctioned shows! Most often they know the "lines" their birds come from, so you don't run the risk of severe imbreeding! Fairs are fun, but not the best venue for breed quality. Most of the time the judges at fairs aren't clear on the APA guidelines to begin with....especially less common birds like the Ameraucanas.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

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Clearly, chickens don't work that way -- but maybe they should!!!!

Ok, maybe I don't have my thinking cap on today, but how do they not "work that way"? All pure dog breeds got to be what they are by having different breeds crossed together to make something new. Same as we do with chickens. Take the "puggle" for example. You breed a pug and a beagle, you get a puggle, it's something new and different, it's no longer a pug or a beagle. And it's a "mix" until the AKC decides to accept it. If you decide to make a new breed of chicken, you have a "mix" of 2 other breeds until the APA decides that it breeds true enough and enough people are breeding it to call it a new breed name. So, yeah, I'm not getting how that's different...

Making a new breed is NOT as simple as crossing "a Pug and a Beagle" and waiting until the AKC accepts it. It involves a group of people taking Pugs and Beagles with certain traits they wish to promote and combine and arriving at the "Puggle" they wish to promote. Those folks form a "Puggle Society" and make rules about breed objectives; what they wish the breed to be. They then spend a great deal of time and money rigorously safeguarding THEIR rules, breeding carefully, only specific animals, and arriving at the "Puggle" they want. That breed society then presents their case and their best representives to the AKC for acceptance - who also has very strict rules about what a "breed" needs to be.

The Ameraucana people are obviously attempting to do the same thing - breed and produce a VERY specific type of chicken. Unfortunately, with chickens, because there aren't any official societies or governing bodies it can't be and isn't policed and anyone can and does refer to their coloured egg laying bird as "Ameraucana".

It takes less than two months to produce dogs and cats and yet those breeders go to all the trouble of keeping rigourous records about blood lines and registering their dogs and cats. But the point of paperwork is not just about how long it takes to create the animal, it is rather more about how long that animal can produce offspring. It takes three weeks to produce a chicken. And that chicken likely has a useful productive breeding life of 2 or 3 years. Surely it would be possible to generate "papers" to track the blood lines if people were truly interested. And yes, the cost would increase significantly. But if folks want to establish and protect PURE chicken bloodlines - and stop all the false claims from the wannabees, then surely the real thing has to be documented.

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

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Ok, maybe I don't have my thinking cap on today, but how do they not "work that way"? All pure dog breeds got to be what they are by having different breeds crossed together to make something new. Same as we do with chickens. Take the "puggle" for example. You breed a pug and a beagle, you get a puggle, it's something new and different, it's no longer a pug or a beagle. And it's a "mix" until the AKC decides to accept it. If you decide to make a new breed of chicken, you have a "mix" of 2 other breeds until the APA decides that it breeds true enough and enough people are breeding it to call it a new breed name. So, yeah, I'm not getting how that's different...

Making a new breed is NOT as simple as crossing "a Pug and a Beagle" and waiting until the AKC accepts it. It involves a group of people taking Pugs and Beagles with certain traits they wish to promote and combine and arriving at the "Puggle" they wish to promote. Those folks form a "Puggle Society" and make rules about breed objectives; what they wish the breed to be. They then spend a great deal of time and money rigorously safeguarding THEIR rules, breeding carefully, only specific animals, and arriving at the "Puggle" they want. That breed society then presents their case and their best representives to the AKC for acceptance - who also has very strict rules about what a "breed" needs to be.

The Ameraucana people are obviously attempting to do the same thing - breed and produce a VERY specific type of chicken. Unfortunately, with chickens, because there aren't any official societies or governing bodies it can't be and isn't policed and anyone can and does refer to their coloured egg laying bird as "Ameraucana".

It takes less than two months to produce dogs and cats and yet those breeders go to all the trouble of keeping rigourous records about blood lines and registering their dogs and cats. But the point of paperwork is not just about how long it takes to create the animal, it is rather more about how long that animal can produce offspring. It takes three weeks to produce a chicken. And that chicken likely has a useful productive breeding life of 2 or 3 years. Surely it would be possible to generate "papers" to track the blood lines if people were truly interested. And yes, the cost would increase significantly. But if folks want to establish and protect PURE chicken bloodlines - and stop all the false claims from the wannabees, then surely the real thing has to be documented.

Well, it was a "nutshell" explanation. And there is a group of people, or "official society" if you will, that's what the Ameraucana Breeder's Club is all about. No, it's not as intense as some horse or dog affiliations, but it's what we have, and we support it whole heartedly, which is why this discussion is even a discussion in the first place.

 

[FlashPointFarm]

Well said, Buehler!

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[billfields]

Sometimes it's not a matter of IF you "educate" it's HOW you "educate"....and if an education was asked for.

 

[Sandy16]

Thank goodness I read some of these posts long ago and figured out that I have 2 EE's instead of 2 Ameraucaunas like I was told by the place who sold them to me. I would have been offended if I had innocently called them by the wrong breed and been corrected in the harsh manner that some people choose when trying to "educate" others. Education is necessary and yes, we should all know what type of girls we have, but come on folks, use some restraint when getting up on your high horse. BTW - I'm VERY happy that I have EE's because to me they are beautiful and I still have blue eggs (which is what I originally wanted!).

 

[speckledhen]

Another "EE/Ameraucana/Araucana" thread down the drain. I'm sure there will be others.