anyone heard of this? please read!!

Discussion in 'Other Pets & Livestock' started by birdbrain5, Oct 1, 2011.

  1. birdbrain5

    birdbrain5 Songster

    Aug 2, 2010
    I had posted about my GSD gone missing this past Sunday, and unfortunetly I have not heard anything about her or found her. Unfortunetly she was not wearing identification, just her collar. I have put posters up all over the area, and some picture fliers up at stores and whatnot. I have talked to a few local people but nothing. I called animal control and nothing yet.
    My attention is now focused on a different possibility. A woman about 5 miles from me called after seeing my signs and told me of her dog that has gone missing on the following Tuesday since my dog. He was a middle age dog (like mine) and wearing a collar. Never strays far and very friendly. Also about a mile to the other side of me her relatives are missing an older dog, again never strays far.
    When I called around to shelters I got a man on the phone who asked me specifics about my dog. I told him she was a 5 year old dog spayed female wearing a collar. He told me she would probably be too old for someone to bother grabbing for re-sale. He told me more likely someone might grab her for "testing". He is the second person to suggest that people come to areas like mine and grab middle aged dogs SPECIFICALLY wearing collars to bring to labs and test different drugs on them. He told me they want dogs a few years old and not puppies because middle aged dogs especially wearing collars show that they have been cared for and vacinated and are better canidates for thier testing and whatnot. I am totally beside myself to think my dog may have been picked up for this. Has anyone heard of this?! I am an hour from Charlotte NC, and I looked up testing labs and SO MANY came up I dont even know where to start.
    I dont know if I should try calling these places to ask, or if they will just lie to me and play dumb since its obviously not legal to steal someones dog. I thought about going to the police station but Im affraid they will laugh me right out of there. Im in an area where most people think dogs are just dogs and disposable. This dog was my pet, and my best friend for 5 years.
    Does anyone know anything about this? I dont know where to start! Also a man I know a town over had his two dogs go missing, a young Pyr puppy and an older mutt dog that had never left his property in the 10+ years she was alive. Is someone re selling these dogs?! I cant imagine there is market for this, older spayed dogs without papers and whatnot, why would anyone buy them? Shelters cant even adopt dogs out nevermind random people selling random dogs. If anyone has any information or guidance I'd be very appreciative. This is the first I have ever heard of such a thing and I just cant believe it.

  2. scratch'n'peck

    scratch'n'peck Crowing

    Oct 31, 2008
    West Michigan
    My Coop
    I haven't heard a lot about that, but it sounds horrible. I am so sorry your dear dog is missing.
  3. Imp

    Imp All things share the same breath- Chief Seattle

    I'm so sorry your dog is lost. I hope you find her soon. Sometimes lost animals find their way quite a distance, check with neighboring towns AC, if there are any.

    Stealing dogs for lab use just sounds like an urban legend. I can't imagine it would be a cost effetive way to get test subjects. And without know the history of the dogs it would make any results invalid.

    Once again [​IMG]

  4. KDailey

    KDailey Crazy Cochin Lady

    Jun 27, 2011
    Bronson, Tx
    This may not be something you want to think about but I've heard of dogs being picked up and are used to train fighting dogs. Gives the fighting dog confidence. This may be a sign that there could be some dog fighting in the area...


    Maybe there's a hoarder in the area that thinks they are finding dogs that were abandoned by their owners or are lost and they're taking them in to "help" them when really their owners are looking for them. Then they get attached and don't want to give them up when they realize that they belong to someone
  5. xchairity_casex

    xchairity_casex Songster

    Feb 5, 2011
    i Do doubt that the lab itself would go around looking for dogs since dog pound actually give labratories animals for cheap/free that are to be euthinized anyways this is a sad fact that i found out first hand talking to people at the humane society who was trying to rescue as many dogs from pounds as possable for this reason.

    THOUGH there are sadly people who make money by doing things like this for labratories breeding mice,cats,guinea pigs,rabbits,dogs ect or picking up strays or taking pets from craigslist and selling them at the labratories. my grandpa (who i detested) used to do this when i was a kid he tried getting his hands on our cats to take to the labratory and make money off of thats how i elarned abotu animal testing at the age of 7 when i heard him argueing with my mom about how "everyone does it" and how she and him could make alot of money together" i asked my mom what he was talking about and she told me.
    this is just another reason to always ask a rehomeing fee for a pet i know alot of people say "you just ask for a fee for the money" NO you ask for a rehomeing fee to keep the animal safer
    people who use dogs as bait dogs,people who make money off them selling to the labratories, people who use small animals as food for there dogs or cats or snakes. i talked to a girl a long time ago about her father how he bought a cat then would get free mice and hamsters and gerbils from people lock them in a room with the cat and watch the cat kill them
    theres alot of sad sick people out there
  6. debilorrah

    debilorrah The Great Guru of Yap Premium Member

    It's called bundling and it is a very real thing. Large universities do not have the funds to purchase animals, so they often troll the CL ads, make deals with shelters for dogs that are ready to be put down, etc. There was a time when it just about stopped completely, but it is active again for whatever reason. When we were looking for kittens, many people didn't want us to take two. Quite a few ads out there also now state NO BUNDLING. Sad, isn't it?
  7. xchairity_casex

    xchairity_casex Songster

    Feb 5, 2011
    Quote:i would suspect it is active again becuase of the economey people are looking to save as much money as possable and to also make as much money as possable as easy as possable

  8. punk-a-doodle

    punk-a-doodle Songster

    Apr 15, 2011
    Working in animal testing, I do meet quite a few people who are convinced that lab workers drive around in unmarked white vans, stealing dogs off the street to test on... A certain group even put up posters with that claim in our area. Funnily enough, one of the dogs pictured was a dog we had at our lab....but he had been adopted out a month ago, and was living quite happily with a new family. XD

    Dealers have been caught for breaking laws and stealing pets, but that is more risky for them than, say, browsing the free ads. There are two different classes of dealers (and one exhibitor class), and various branches of testing. Universities tend to get their animals from Class A dealers as many experiments in a 'pure research' setting require purpose-bred animals. Rather than going through Class B dealers, most universities actually go directly through shelters when available. Our lab usually recieves its cats and dogs from shelters that are due to be euthanized , and also adopts out many of these dogs and cats when the studies are through. Some of the animals do not even make the cut for a study, but are still given a full check-up and treatment on our dime before being released for adoption. My husband and I adopted one such dog ourselves...though it did not end happily. The poor guy ended up having degenerative epilepsy very severely and eventually had to be euthanized. Our university and lab paid for an MRI to be run on our adopted dog (very costly) when we were trying to treat his epilepsy, and allowed our private vet to be present in the MRI room which they owned. Our dog had never been on study (technically said to have kennel cough, but sometimes they just adopt out the animals they think have a good chance of being adopted, so who knows), so no, it was not an experiment which lead to his epilepsy. It was hereditary from his Aussie side.

    Class B dealers have been known to break laws in how they attain their animals. If they did end up in a lab though (but it is pretty labs actually usually want dogs between the ages of 1 to 4, all of ours are within this age group, cats are usually kittens to under middle-aged), you would *want* an animal to go to a university. Or at least, I would. It is the only branch of research I choose to work in. Military research seems to be the least regulated, corporate research can either be really well or really poorly run, and 'pure research'/fundamental research is the kind that seems to be the most heavily regulated with staff that is consistently well trained and knowledgeable about the animals in their care (which, as we are constantly reminded, is a privileged, not a right). It is also the most self-regulated group, with the IACUC and even welfare laws stemming largely from *within* this branch...not from outside animal advocates as is often assumed. The three 'R's also came from within this branch. You can read a bit about them here:
    Our lab alone is host to several different groups that inspect our facilities regularly, from the IACUC up to the federal level. Some of our labs have treatment facilities and equipment that is *better* than those found at the human hospitals in our area!! Every little mouse is checked, fed, and watered daily. Any sign of distress is noted and looked at by one of our on-staff vets. By far, the majority of animals used at universities are rats and mice. By far. You are usually looking at a handful of cats and dogs at any university facility that houses large animals. These receive daily care at high standards. Our dogs are walked three times a day. We use positive methods of training to make their lives as easy as possible. For example, to take blood samples, the dog is trained to hold out its paw and is given treats. So, when you walk by one of our dogs having blood taken, you now know why it is wagging its tail madly. They are about to get a treat and be fussed over by the staff. Many of the people I meet involved in university research (from animal techs to PIs) have beloved pets of their own, from rats to cats, and care very much about animal welfare. You can read the various laws that these types of labs must work under online.

    One area of testing I do not agree with is product testing (I'm using product to mean things like drain cleaners...not biomedical products...different areas). This area sometimes allows for pain to be present during the experiment. While cosmetic testing has seriously decreased in the US (and been banned in some other countries), product testing is still very much around. All the product testing I personally know about though, has dealt with Class A dealers. I am not sure how common class B dealers really are for this. Might be very, might be not at all. But, like all research, cats and dogs are not the most common animal used. I believe rabbits are very commonly used (so not taken off the street), but I'm not sure as that is not a branch I would work in.

    Like most things involving testing, things that happened decades ago are still being used as propaganda. For instance, Class B dealers may have been more of a concern for having a dog show up in a lab in the past. Paperwork was not as detailed today (universities in particular keep very detailed records about every individual animal that arrives), and in the late 1970s and early 1980s there were more than 1,000 Class B dealers. I believe the number is under 20 that sell to labs today (Dealers do not just sell to labs). It seems that most sell to biomedical companies (meaning that they are mostly selling animals that have been killed before making their way to these facilities), sell already killed animals to vet schools/medical schools, and they also have breeding privileges. The USDA website states: "In FY 2009, there were nine Class B dealers selling dogs and cats to research facilities. This number is down from more than 100 in the early 1990's".
    This may also help put things into perspective:

    I would be more worried about these dogs going towards dog fighting bait, being stolen for illegal breeding operation, someone in the area targeting a certain breed, or ending up in a shelter myself. I really, really hope you find your dog and find out whether or not someone is stealing dogs, but I also personally think that research is the least of your concerns. I know animals are sometimes stolen because someone took it upon themselves to decide that the dog was not 'being cared for properly". Did your dog have any sort of disability? In one area we lived in, a bunch of dogs with disabilities and mutations (one had 'lobster claw', a congenital defect) went missing. If you browse amazon, or even just chatboards, you will see books and posts written by people who are proud about stealing pets, because they are convinced they were 'saving them'. XP Regardless, I would alert people in the area to keep an extra eye on their dogs, and to report anyone suspicious. Having multiple dogs go missing in a small area would certainly make me worry that something was up.

    There is the possibility that the missing dogs also may have just taken off themselves (ran after something, hit by a car in rural parts, bolted off scared, etc). You may just think you are seeing a pattern, because you typically don't ask people if they are missing a pet. Check wide and far at shelters. It is amazing how far some dogs can end up. My husband and I almost hit an old hunting hound on our way to class one day. Turned out he was from the southernmost part of the state (we were at the northern part), from a well known breeder of hunting hounds. The dog still had his tracking collar on, and had been out running so long he was emaciated and had ticks all over him. The shelter was able to track down the owner because of the tracking collar. Some shelters do not do...a good job on finding owners. I don't know *why*, as finding an owner would save them care costs (plus the fee they charge for you to get your animal back), but our local shelter wouldn't even call numbers on collar tags. One of our cats got out once, and we called around. No one said they had a cat by that description. We decided to go to the shelters. ...There was our cat.

    I think the worst feeling with pets is not knowing where they are, or what happened to them. I am in tears every time our cat sneaks out, even though we always find her. I sure hope this has a happy ending for you!!
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
  9. drdoolittle

    drdoolittle Songster

    Jul 30, 2010
    NE Indiana
    I think your dog was either hit by a car and the body is not in view from the road, picked up by a well-meaning person who thinks the owner is neglectful for leaving the dog outdoors unattended, picked up for training fighting dogs, or possibly stolen to be either sold for a profit or trained for hunting. Although I doubt a GSD would be used for the latter. My hubby and I had a dog---a GSD/Lab cross about 2-3 years old----go missing just like this. He was a friendly dog, although I don't think he would have gone with someone unless he was already off our property----we lived in town on an acre at the time. My FIL told us that there had been something in the news about some hunters coming up from Tennesee and other southern states to Indiana and Ohio and stealing large dogs to take down south and train for hunting.
  10. ChickenWisperer

    ChickenWisperer Songster

    Jun 30, 2008
    Many things are possible.

    - Your dog was stolen to be used in lab testing. It is VERY possible and it happens more often than people think, regardless.
    - Your dog was stolen to be used as a breeder for a mill. Had a friend with a pure bred husky female - spayed - she was outside with her owner, near the road, using the potty. A minivan pulled up, a woman ran out of it and grabbed her dog, took it and drove off. A week/half later, she found her on a ad on CL - a bullcrap story. Went there to get her dog not having said it was hers to begin with, only to find it was a puppy mill. The people who'd stolen her dog were getting rid of it after they found out it was spayed.
    - Your dog was stolen and is being used as a trainer/roll dog for dog fighting. Sad but it's fairly common...
    - Your dog was stolen to be trained for a certain use - hunting, agility, etc strange but I've seen it happen as well. My best friends father had 5 of his pure bred setters stolen... already trained.
    - Your dog was hit by a car and you haven't found her
    - Your dog might have been chasing game, got lost. My girl, border collie/lab/chow had never done it before, but yesterday she bolted - across the "highway" in front of our house - after a squirrel, and she's 11 years old. You just never know.

    I really do hope you find your baby and get her home. If you loved her as much as I love my girl, I know this is killing you. [​IMG]

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