Are all wood chips safe for a chicken run?

[nicosturla]

I’ve decided to use wood chips in my chicken run as it can get muddy. Are all wood chips safe options? I have some playground wood chips, but I don’t know what kind.

 

[3KillerBs]

and Pine (toxic),

Pine is not toxic. The people who claim that are usually trying to sell you something different.

If pine were toxic it wouldn't be used by millions of commercial operations operating on tight margins where even a fractional percentage of loss or gain can make or break the entire business.

Eastern Red Cedar gives off strong fumes that can cause significant respiratory irritation. Western Cedar is less aromatic and thus less irritating -- probably OK for use in the run.

Walnut is probably OK for the chickens but the juglone that inhibits plant growth might not compost away sufficiently to allow using the chicken compost in your garden.

Other than that, wood chips are generally safe.

 

[aart]

There's been so many studies that have shown pine to be toxic to chickens, though? Most aren't even from sellers, I'm not sure what you're on about.

I suppose it could be.
If birds were stuck with lots of fresh pine shavings in a closed coop with no ventilation.
Water can be toxic too.
Your views are extreme to the point of dislogic.

 

[aart]

then you'll be cooled off and out of your "I need to be right" childish additude.

Pot - Kettle.

 

[NatJ]

pine shaving don't directly kill a chicken, but it can in other ways, by causing cancer in the lungs, impacting the digestive system and causing crop impactions, and cell damage.

look at the studies on pine shavings, the effects of it are extremely common in chickens and rodents past the age of 7 years.

If this information is accurate, pine might be a reasonable choice for people who intend to keep their chickens for 5 years or less. (But consider changing bedding if the chickens show digestive problems.) Crop impactions can happen with ANY bedding if the chickens eat too much of it.


Personally, I like dry leaves, dry grass clippings, pine needles, wood chips, and other materials that I can collect for free. I'm not picky about what kind of tree it comes from, but free sources often have a mixture rather than a large amount of any single thing. I've used pine shavings a few times, but I've mostly avoided them because of the cost (more expensive than "free.")

 

[3KillerBs]

There's been so many studies that have shown pine to be toxic to chickens, though? Most aren't even from sellers, I'm not sure what you're on about.

If they were actually toxic the commercial farmers wouldn't be using them and stores wouldn't sell them for fear of lawsuits.

Don't be tricked by scaremongers.

 

[3KillerBs]

Right, the commercial farmers for sure put the chickens first, which is why the average lifespan is 5 for commercial chickens. Most commercial farmers use metal "bedding" or straw anyways. Also, if I had a nickel for every time stores have sold something dangerous for animals id have thousands of nickels (As both a dog and chicken person). Writing off the literal HUNDEREDS of studies done on different bedding and their effects as people trying to sell you things is pretty messed up, seeing all the effort scientists have put into experimenting. Stop following the crowd, just because a lot of people do or use it, doesn't mean it's safe or right.

The farmers' livelihood depends on the welfare of their animals.

If the animals were wallowing around in toxic bedding -- dying or failing to grow properly -- the farmers would lose money. So even if the farmers *were* the awful people you think they are they'd do everything possible to keep their birds healthy.

 

[saysfaa]

The scaremongering seems to be coming from this particular article: ...
The author seems to have an absolute loathing of pine to the point of paranoia. It is admitted that there have been zero studies about chickens and pine chips but the author goes ahead and uses other studies anyway and applies them to chickens. Seems like a storm in a teacup to me.

That is the only one I found also - last time this came up. https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...-have-conflicting-info.1536099/#post-25913125

Since it came up again so soon, I dug a little deeper. These are studies she references

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0091674989900730
"To determine if plicatic acid from cedar wood and abietic acid from pine resin could directly damage lung cells, we exposed [cells] to solutions of plicatic and abietic acids.
...
both caused dose- and time-dependent lysis [lysis is rupture of the cell wall] of [lung] cells. Instillation of [these] acids into rat lungs caused destruction of the [bronchial and lung cells].

She sees "When an animal inhales the abietic acid in pine (one of the main toxins), it damages the airway. Epithelial, tracheal, and lung cells disintegrate and slough off"
I see: if concentrated acid is injected into lung cells, it can damage them. To be fair, I didn't buy the paper to look up what concentrations were used but how else would they determine that the damage is dose related?

Next reference
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-0536.1989.tb03094.x

"Contact allergy due to colophony"
"7 resin acids, 3 ... derivatives and the neutral ...were studied by experimental sensitization using modified FCA... 4 resin acids [including abietic] proved to be weak sensitizers... 4 resin acids and [the 3 derivatives] were moderate and ... moderate to strong sensitizers.

She sees, "One of the most toxic chemicals in pine is abietic acid, which is the primary irritant in pine wood ... [it] can cause airborne contact dermatitis"
I see: abietic acid gives a weak reaction when injected in concentrated form with a substance that enhances reactions
(Based on looking up what FCA is - https://www.scbt.com/p/freunds-complete-adjuvant/) and a quote from MAC (see next reference source - yes, that source that she used), "In extensive experimental animal investigations with the FCA test and the maximization test, it was possible to show that purified abietic acid (99.8%; Karlberg et al. 1985), as well as dehydroabietic acid (Hausen et al. 1989), have if at all a very weak sensitizing effect."
And that it is substances people make from pine resin rather than the pine resin itself that causes most of the allergic reactions in people.
This conclusion is supported by looking up other published research by the same author - he has published least 92 paper - click on his name in the above link.
Also relevant is this descrption of "colophony" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10617209/

It is quite a bit more and somewhat different than the simple answer from dictionary which just says "pine rosin"

Next.
The MAK-Collection for Occupational Health and Safety, 2013
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_MAK_Collection_for_Occupational_Heal.html?id=aZfCDAAAQBAJ

This is documentations for the established MAK values (maximum workplace concentrations) of selected occupational toxicants, including an authoritative review of the available toxicological studies and data.

But if you search for abietic acid or pine, there is no results.

Netsearching abietic acid and MAK...

Gets https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/3527600418.mb51410kske3413

Which says...
"The skin irritation of 10% abietic acid in petrolatum is slight in the guinea pig; at this concentration...The sensitization potential of purified abietic and dehydroabietic acid is slight. Among the oxidation products usually contained in abietic acid..there are, however, potent allergens.... Under workplace conditions, the dusts and vapours of rosin (colophony) containing abietic acid, dehydroabietic acid and their oxidation products can induce asthma. The results of provocation tests with abietic acid have been positive....The cause for the persistent asthma occurring in a number of the exposed persons after long-term exposure to rosin (colophony) dusts or vapours containing abietic acid ...and, less well investigated, to soft wood dusts has not yet been clearly explained. There are indications for an immunological mechanism with involvement of abietic acid, especially from investigations on so-called solderer's asthma.

Restrictions in lung function and obstructive respiratory diseases have been described especially after longer term exposure to abietic acid or its oxidation and decomposition products in vapours of soldering fluxes containing rosin or during the manufacture of soldering fluxes containing rosin (temperature > 140°C). Also, also occurred after exposure to vapours of hot-melt adhesives based on rosin, unheated rosin dust [elsewhere this is explained as near planing machines], heated rubber chemicals, pinewood dust containing abietic and pimaric acid (Ayars et al. 1989; , aerosols of a water-miscible coolant or cleaning agents containing rosin.

And again I have lost interest in followingvthe research further.

Keep your pine shavings below 140C (284F), don't aerosolize them chemically or by planing them and don't worry about it.

Or use something else. It will have some sort of risk too. But you might feel better about it because you are avoiding this minuscule risk.

 

[DavidReaves]

Next
Kraft, LM
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/19980197471/downloads/19980197471.pdf?attachment=true

This one is really easy to read. I don't think it supports Miyamoto's paragraph but it is worth reading for how she addressed the subject.

I liked this from the reference:

I bet you any money that you cannot find a bedding
That will give a mousie comfort from unmitigated wetting,
That will be both hygroscopic but yet dry the critter not,
That will burn just when you want it to, but not burn very hot,
That contains no toxins, viruses, no fast fermenting bug,
That is stored with ease in cubbyholes or underneath your rug,
That smells good both to man and beast before it's messed upon
As well as after usage when its wasted youth is gone,
That will do the universal task of cutting variation
To give test results with only zero standard deviation. i
With aims so high And motives so deep,
I wonder why ft should also be cheap

--Lisbeth M Kraft,

Edited to add: Also, I'm pretty sure I would like (would have liked?) someone that included this in a serious, professional paper!

 

[DobieLover]

If they're safe for children they're probably going to be safe for your chickens as well.