Are Started Pullets Safe?

[lazy gardener]

A 10 x 10 run is only big enough for 10 birds.... That's when there are no other stressors involved, like too many roosters, pre existing disease, poor litter management.

 

[strawberricatt]

I can do that! I am trying to fix up an old goat shed, its connected to my bantam barn but they'd have 0 access to each other as they'd be separated by 2 thick wood walls. That really gives me hope, thank you! The one place is selling started ISA Browns (which I think are red sexlinks?) and the other is selling mixed breed, good egg layers.
I'll definitely update!

The goat shed should work just great! Started pullets, so I find, are great for bringing flock numbers up. ISA browns are a type of Red Sexlink, red sexlinks are mainly crosses between two heritage breeds(Rhode Island Reds mostly) I believe. How many birds did you lose? It may pay to get pullets from both places for genetic diversity.

 

[HuskerHens18]

The goat shed should work just great! Started pullets, so I find, are great for bringing flock numbers up. ISA browns are a type of Red Sexlink, red sexlinks are mainly crosses between two heritage breeds(Rhode Island Reds mostly) I believe. How many birds did you lose? It may pay to get pullets from both places for genetic diversity.

I lost nearly 20 birds, I'd have to get my booklet out and count the losses. Last time I counted I lost 15, but several died after that. The last one that died I believe died from being crushed during a storm in mid July, so hopefully not related to previous deaths.
I'd have to check my timeline, but I THINK it's been over a month since my last mysterious death.

And that's what I was thinking too!

 

[Jase The Butcher]

My issue is, I worry about bringing in new illness or making the new ones sick.

Are Started pullets just as risky as bringing in regular adult birds?

A friend I have had that problem on his property, except he was getting started birds from across the country

 

[HuskerHens18]

A friend I have had that problem on his property, except he was getting started birds from across the country

The one place is 10 minutes from me and the other is 20 minutes away, but doesn't mean there still isn't risk. I just don't want to wait for day old chicks to grow, by then I'd have to separate my roosters and start a new flock. But I mean, that's part of chicken raising, so I've just got to either accept the risks or give up my once perfect flock and start new.

 

[HuskerHens18]

I wouldn't worry about that. Shucks we get birds brought to the property all the time from places within that distance and that has never ever caused an issue

Well that's good to know, makes me feel a bit better.

 

[HuskerHens18]

Here's my take on it...

Get the started pullets from the place you got chicks IF those birds were not the ones that died mysteriously. It may have nothing to do with your flock or conditions but genetics.

Since you know you've had coccidiosis, know that it can scar the intestines, even when treated, that leads to life long malnourishment and wasting. Heat stresses things even more. I have had some wasting deaths after a coccidiosis outbreak, and after treatment, and after apparent healing. Those affected birds were never do wells afterwards likely from intestinal injury and eventually died, though not at the same time.

So my thought is the coccidiosis and your deaths, other than the storm caused, are likely related.

Some birds genetically have more strength to fight off coccidiosis due to stronger immune systems and natural resistance. Back to your chick origination. Can you remember where you got the birds that have not been thriving? Then, order from the other guy if you can.

Then I would isolate the started pullets not so much for your flock's safety (as I agree with @rebrascora ), you really can't isolate from Marek's unless you've got a bubble tent and chicken hazmat suits...and if the one is 10 minutes away...they've likely been exposed too as it is in the area. So, personally, I wouldn't worry about Marek's.

I would be concerned about the coccidiosis. Those nastly little protozoa are opportunists. They lurk in the intestines growing exponentially with the right environmental conditions. Then they mature in the gut to release thousands of oocyts that are the seeds for the next generation. Your soil likely has high contamination, so litter and ground management will be necessary as well. If able, field rotate. If not that, then shovel out litter and replace with fresh.

Bloody diarrhea only happens with certain strains and only if it attacks the lower intestinal tract. Other strains are more insidious lurking higher in the tract robbing the bird of nutrition.

I would put your started pullets on medicated feed so that they build a slow immunity to the strain on your soil, and putting them on fresh litter in the goat shed. Watch their poo for volume and color. Coccidiosis sometimes simply creates voluminous fluffy poo and that huddled, scruffy look. Heat stress adds to it.

Once your started pullets are stabilized, looking healthy from transition stress, after about 30 days, then I would introduce them to the main flock.

At some point, you simply have to breed for resistance. While meds are very useful, quite honestly they were invented for flocks that were kept in very cramped quarters for high turnover and high profit. Long term sustainability was never the main goal.

As backyard flock owners, we can manipulate and adapt for longer term sustainability, breeding from the stronger ones, using meds and management as necessary, but always with the long term goal in mind.

Buying strong breed lines from an area close by is generally the best idea IF that was not the source of the birds that did not thrive.

My thoughts.
LofMc

Very informative post, I learned more from you just now than I have all summer at the vet and state lab. Thank you!
I'm going to get sand, I want enough to make it several inches deep. And I'm hoping to breed more next year, I'd like to make stronger resistance.

I will have to pull out my flock booklet to see which ones really didn't thrive. Im actually thinking it was my generation from 2 years ago I purchased from TSC, but I'll have to check. My Orphingtons of all ages really suffered, which I bought from the lady 10 minutes away at different times, but the other breeds I got from her are doing perfect and some didn't even show signs of coccidiosis.

Again, thank you so much!

 

[HuskerHens18]

I agree with this ^^

@HuskerHens18
How many chickens do you currently have? How many Hens and roosters? What are there ages?
Do you have other fowl - turkeys or ducks?
Photos of your current flock, housing and run(s) would be helpful.

I can't find any place where you posted the official results of the testing/necropsy - can you give us more information as to what the reports stated?

Please do not take this the wrong way - I took a very quick look at your previous posts, especially the one's in the ER threads, it looks like you have been dealing with a multitude of things - Coccidiosis, some type of respiratory illness and/or possibly bacterial infection (speculation on my part by looking at some of the poop you posted).
I understand that you have had testing/necropsy and spend $$$ trying to figure all this out. I can't imagine losing that many birds in such a short period of time and it must be heartbreaking.

I would not only be concerned that started pullets may bring in another unknown illness/condition, but unless you get a handle on what caused the death of so many chickens, I would also be concerned that the new birds may pick up something from your current flock. This may result in more deaths and heartbreak.

There is not a really "good answer" in this particular situation. You can try it and see how it goes.
If you do get the pullets, then quarantine is a good idea. I would definitely either feed medicated chick starter or have Corid on hand, you could always give a preventative dosage of Corid if you don't use medicated feed.

Scattered throughout 6 pens are about 85 birds. It's roughly 50/50 hens to roosters. I have 3 rooster flocks, an all hen flock, a bantam flock, and my main flock.
I have 5 ducks, 0 access to my chickens.

I have no report, UNL doesn't do that. They work with vets only. The vet then gives me "The Game Plan". Well, the game plan was only Sulfa Powder and Panacur. I called the UNL myself and I got a receptionist who told me what I already knew, there was coccidia present.
The respitory thing I'm treating with Tylan 50 and it's working great, today is the last day. It's in my bantam flock only. No deaths which is great. They're officially outside and I think that helped.

I'm really annoyed with my state lab experience. I've told you everything I know, which really isn't anything at all.

The only reason I think whatever it was may be gone/dormant, is because I lost so many birds in a short amount of time, nearly everyday, and now I'm not.
But I still wanted BYC members opinions, which you've all so kindly done. I'm just at a loss of what to do.

This is the bantam flocks ground, dirt with river rock scattered throughout. Inside the coop is the same dirt, just no rocks. You can't see it but the top of the run is covered in deer netting.

If you look in the back the nesting boxes are buckets, which they love. There's 3 ladders and a ramp which leads to the roof where there's a screened over opening so fresh air can always get in. The coop is insulated and the roof is tin. The door is open 24/7. I'll have to go get more pictures, this is all I have of my bantam enclosure.

Sorry this took so long to post, BYC keeps crashing

 

[HuskerHens18]

What do you feed your flock?..... Orpingtons can be particularly susceptible to obesity and Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome and a slight dietary imbalance over the long term can increase the risk of that and all those fluffy feathers hide the surplus fat. Just wondering if that might explain losing more of them. I'm guessing you didn't get necropsies on all 15-20 birds that died. Just thinking that there has probably been more than one thing going on in your flock. Fatty Liver is usually pretty easy to spot, so if you had necropsies on any of the Orps it should be apparent if that was the cause. Thick fatty deposits can also cause other potentially fatal reproductive ailments like egg binding and prolapse and internal laying and salpingitis even if they don't suffer Fatty Liver haemorrhaging. Just something to consider..... I appreciate that I am getting off topic here but just trying to help solve your significant losses and perhaps prevent further ones. Genetics will of course also play a part.
If you are getting started birds you would be well advised to give them a preventative round of Corid when they arrive at your property, so that if there are coccidia in your pens that they have not previously been exposed to, they will have a chance to develop some resistance rather than be suddenly overwhelmed by them.

Right now I'm finishing out the last bags of chick starter grower. My pullets are just about to start laying, which I'll then switch to Layena Omega 3.
Rooster flocks are fed Flock Raiser.
All my Orphingtons that died were skinny as heck, which I assume is from the coccidia.....? I don't feed treats, I only give cucumbers and potato peelings maybe twice a month, if even.
I really appreciate you helping! The eggbound hens were a Jersey Giant and a GL Wyandotte, both from different places. JG from Welp Hatchery and the GLW from the breeder 10min away.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Did anyone mention MG (mycoplasma gallespeticum)?

It produces CRD (chronic respiratory disease) in chickens and responds to antibiotics but is not cured by it. Once infected, a flock can remain infected. It typically is an all in and all out management with MG.

You say you've had diarrhea problems with the birds on (I assume) the corn husks but not the dirt. Look at those corn husks, they may not be allowing enough drainage.

You've got a lot of birds in different pens...how much space per bird? How often are you rotating litter?

Both MG and coccidiosis can respond to sulpha drugs.

LofMc