Are Started Pullets Safe?

[Wyorp Rock]

I also think it is important to know what was killing your own birds before you bring in any new ones, otherwise you may just continue to have more losses.
Stress increases the chances of disease breaking out and spreading. Integration of new birds causes stress.

I agree with this ^^

@HuskerHens18
How many chickens do you currently have? How many Hens and roosters? What are there ages?
Do you have other fowl - turkeys or ducks?
Photos of your current flock, housing and run(s) would be helpful.

I can't find any place where you posted the official results of the testing/necropsy - can you give us more information as to what the reports stated?

Please do not take this the wrong way - I took a very quick look at your previous posts, especially the one's in the ER threads, it looks like you have been dealing with a multitude of things - Coccidiosis, some type of respiratory illness and/or possibly bacterial infection (speculation on my part by looking at some of the poop you posted).
I understand that you have had testing/necropsy and spend $$$ trying to figure all this out. I can't imagine losing that many birds in such a short period of time and it must be heartbreaking.

I would not only be concerned that started pullets may bring in another unknown illness/condition, but unless you get a handle on what caused the death of so many chickens, I would also be concerned that the new birds may pick up something from your current flock. This may result in more deaths and heartbreak.

There is not a really "good answer" in this particular situation. You can try it and see how it goes.
If you do get the pullets, then quarantine is a good idea. I would definitely either feed medicated chick starter or have Corid on hand, you could always give a preventative dosage of Corid if you don't use medicated feed.

 

[HuskerHens18]

Did they give numbers of coccidia found....and maybe some info on the specific strain?

Not a fan of sand as bedding....wonders if coccidia oocysts survive better in sand or organic bedding? Wonders if your lab could test bedding for coccidia population numbers..and give info on local strains and eradication?

Nope. They were pretty vague on the phone call, I was there when my veterinarian called them. They don't send out reports, just phone calls. Getting to talk to anyone is pretty rare, usually it's just a receptionist.
All I know is my local strain is immune to Amprolium, I had to use Sulfa powder in their water twice this year to finally knock it out, for now.
Right now the bedding is corn stalks straight from my field. The only ones not to get coccidia have dirt for bedding.

 

[HuskerHens18]

I agree with this ^^

@HuskerHens18
How many chickens do you currently have? How many Hens and roosters? What are there ages?
Do you have other fowl - turkeys or ducks?
Photos of your current flock, housing and run(s) would be helpful.

I can't find any place where you posted the official results of the testing/necropsy - can you give us more information as to what the reports stated?

Please do not take this the wrong way - I took a very quick look at your previous posts, especially the one's in the ER threads, it looks like you have been dealing with a multitude of things - Coccidiosis, some type of respiratory illness and/or possibly bacterial infection (speculation on my part by looking at some of the poop you posted).
I understand that you have had testing/necropsy and spend $$$ trying to figure all this out. I can't imagine losing that many birds in such a short period of time and it must be heartbreaking.

I would not only be concerned that started pullets may bring in another unknown illness/condition, but unless you get a handle on what caused the death of so many chickens, I would also be concerned that the new birds may pick up something from your current flock. This may result in more deaths and heartbreak.

There is not a really "good answer" in this particular situation. You can try it and see how it goes.
If you do get the pullets, then quarantine is a good idea. I would definitely either feed medicated chick starter or have Corid on hand, you could always give a preventative dosage of Corid if you don't use medicated feed.

Scattered throughout 6 pens are about 85 birds. It's roughly 50/50 hens to roosters. I have 3 rooster flocks, an all hen flock, a bantam flock, and my main flock.
I have 5 ducks, 0 access to my chickens.

I have no report, UNL doesn't do that. They work with vets only. The vet then gives me "The Game Plan". Well, the game plan was only Sulfa Powder and Panacur. I called the UNL myself and I got a receptionist who told me what I already knew, there was coccidia present.
The respitory thing I'm treating with Tylan 50 and it's working great, today is the last day. It's in my bantam flock only. No deaths which is great. They're officially outside and I think that helped.

I'm really annoyed with my state lab experience. I've told you everything I know, which really isn't anything at all.

The only reason I think whatever it was may be gone/dormant, is because I lost so many birds in a short amount of time, nearly everyday, and now I'm not.
But I still wanted BYC members opinions, which you've all so kindly done. I'm just at a loss of what to do.

This is the bantam flocks ground, dirt with river rock scattered throughout. Inside the coop is the same dirt, just no rocks. You can't see it but the top of the run is covered in deer netting.

If you look in the back the nesting boxes are buckets, which they love. There's 3 ladders and a ramp which leads to the roof where there's a screened over opening so fresh air can always get in. The coop is insulated and the roof is tin. The door is open 24/7. I'll have to go get more pictures, this is all I have of my bantam enclosure.

Sorry this took so long to post, BYC keeps crashing

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Hmmmm....I've only read this thread, so it sounds like there is more going on indeed, and I was not aware of respiratory symptoms in some. That changes the picture.

If sulfa powder helped "knock it out," it may not have been just coccidiosis as Sulmet and such sulfa drugs can be used for coccidiosis but also treat a variety of gram negative bacteria.

But I'm curious...did you lose 15 birds over a year? or over a month?

If you've had more than coccidiosis at hand, I would wait and figure out what you may have going on. It is likely several elements at large.

The rest of my suggestions remain for treating the litter.

I agree that I'm not a fan of sand, as it doesn't do well in my climate.

I'm not sure how well the corn husks are keeping things down without molding.

Aspergillis can cause a lot of problems too.

More info may help us determine what may be going on before you add more.

LofMc

 

[HuskerHens18]

What do you feed your flock?..... Orpingtons can be particularly susceptible to obesity and Fatty Liver Haemorrhagic Syndrome and a slight dietary imbalance over the long term can increase the risk of that and all those fluffy feathers hide the surplus fat. Just wondering if that might explain losing more of them. I'm guessing you didn't get necropsies on all 15-20 birds that died. Just thinking that there has probably been more than one thing going on in your flock. Fatty Liver is usually pretty easy to spot, so if you had necropsies on any of the Orps it should be apparent if that was the cause. Thick fatty deposits can also cause other potentially fatal reproductive ailments like egg binding and prolapse and internal laying and salpingitis even if they don't suffer Fatty Liver haemorrhaging. Just something to consider..... I appreciate that I am getting off topic here but just trying to help solve your significant losses and perhaps prevent further ones. Genetics will of course also play a part.
If you are getting started birds you would be well advised to give them a preventative round of Corid when they arrive at your property, so that if there are coccidia in your pens that they have not previously been exposed to, they will have a chance to develop some resistance rather than be suddenly overwhelmed by them.

Right now I'm finishing out the last bags of chick starter grower. My pullets are just about to start laying, which I'll then switch to Layena Omega 3.
Rooster flocks are fed Flock Raiser.
All my Orphingtons that died were skinny as heck, which I assume is from the coccidia.....? I don't feed treats, I only give cucumbers and potato peelings maybe twice a month, if even.
I really appreciate you helping! The eggbound hens were a Jersey Giant and a GL Wyandotte, both from different places. JG from Welp Hatchery and the GLW from the breeder 10min away.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Did anyone mention MG (mycoplasma gallespeticum)?

It produces CRD (chronic respiratory disease) in chickens and responds to antibiotics but is not cured by it. Once infected, a flock can remain infected. It typically is an all in and all out management with MG.

You say you've had diarrhea problems with the birds on (I assume) the corn husks but not the dirt. Look at those corn husks, they may not be allowing enough drainage.

You've got a lot of birds in different pens...how much space per bird? How often are you rotating litter?

Both MG and coccidiosis can respond to sulpha drugs.

LofMc

 

[HuskerHens18]

Hmmmm....I've only read this thread, so it sounds like there is more going on indeed, and I was not aware of respiratory symptoms in some. That changes the picture.

If sulfa powder helped "knock it out," it may not have been just coccidiosis as Sulmet and such sulfa drugs can be used for coccidiosis but also treat a variety of gram negative bacteria.

But I'm curious...did you lose 15 birds over a year? or over a month?

If you've had more than coccidiosis at hand, I would wait and figure out what you may have going on. It is likely several elements at large.

The rest of my suggestions remain for treating the litter.

I agree that I'm not a fan of sand, as it doesn't do well in my climate.

I'm not sure how well the corn husks are keeping things down without molding.

Aspergillis can cause a lot of problems too.

More info may help us determine what may be going on before you add more.

LofMc

I had to treat with sulfa twice to finally treat it. One treatment was for 21 days and it did nothing, vet told me to try again for one more week with an anti diarrhea, which that finally did the trick.
I lost 15 birds in a month.
I have a condition that makes it hard to clean coops, sand would make it so much easier on me, what doesn't work for you? I live In Nebraska, it's super hot in summer and Super cold in winter, is that bad?

 

[lazy gardener]

Agreed with Lof Mc. How many s.f. per bird in coop AND run? My concern is that there is not appreciable bedding. Just "soil and river rock" IMO translates to a fecal laden mess over time. This would not help to control the pathogens in the soil.

Have you considered converting to deep litter management?

I would not want to be adding any new birds of any age until at least next spring if I was dealing with these kinds of losses.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Right now I'm finishing out the last bags of chick starter grower. My pullets are just about to start laying, which I'll then switch to Layena Omega 3.
Rooster flocks are fed Flock Raiser.
All my Orphingtons that died were skinny as heck, which I assume is from the coccidia.....? I don't feed treats, I only give cucumbers and potato peelings maybe twice a month, if even.
I really appreciate you helping! The eggbound hens were a Jersey Giant and a GL Wyandotte, both from different places. JG from Welp Hatchery and the GLW from the breeder 10min away.

I've been slowly catching up to your circumstances as this thread has evolved.

So after reading the last post, I'm now editing this to state I think you've got litter/field management with crowding issues as the root cause. The illnesses are simply symptoms of that root. What size are your pens? Dirt will not allow for good litter control, nor I doubt the corn husks (though I've not used it admittedly....I've had terrible luck with straw which is similar...it just molds, doesn't absorb, and allows stuff to grow in it).

With 85 birds, you will always have something going on unless you are on top of field/litter and overall management. Chicken keeping is constant management. The larger the flock, the more occurrence statistically that can and will happen.

The larger the flock, the more poop, the more poop, the more pathogens build up. That's why field and/or litter rotation is essential.

You state you realize you don't have litter/field/pen control yet. Then, don't add more birds until you've got that resolved. My math suggests that 85 minus 15 still leaves about 70 birds to manage on ground that is not receiving appropriate treatment yet. You've just treated birds.

Until you get litter management under control, you will still be pushing pathogens into the litter and environment with crowding stress in the birds bringing on illness.

From the med list, I can deduce your vet is treating coccidosis, worms, and likely MG or a gram negative bacteria like Pasturella or eColi or Salmonella.

All of those illness are exacerbated by crowding stress and poop build up in poor litter choice. Get those things under control. You may be losing less simply because your numbers are now down enough to lower stressors. Also you've medicated but very likely not eradicated.

As to sand, I don't like it, nor do others in my area, because my soil is clay...like clay pot clay. I also live in a very rainy climate. Adding sand and water to clay creates concrete. (There actually is a famous concrete manufacturer in our area using our fine clay soil with sand).

Sand stagnates easily. I find it harder to change out. It is miserable to track.

However, there are those on BYC who thoroughly recommend sand. I think they are in much drier climate and have more loamy soil.

Just my experiences.

LofMc

 

[HuskerHens18]

Did anyone mention MG (mycoplasma gallespeticum)?

It produces CRD (chronic respiratory disease) in chickens and responds to antibiotics but is not cured by it. Once infected, a flock can remain infected. It typically is an all in and all out management with MG.

You say you've had diarrhea problems with the birds on (I assume) the corn husks but not the dirt. Look at those corn husks, they may not be allowing enough drainage.

You've got a lot of birds in different pens...how much space per bird? How often are you rotating litter?

Both MG and coccidiosis can respond to sulpha drugs.

LofMc

Yes it was mentioned, but I've got no dead birds so I can't send in a necropsy to test for it.

The corn husks do get messy, I change once a month, I use it a foot deep.

I don't have coops measured, I eyeball it and let their actions tell me how they feel. They're usually free ranged, but I had to confine them just recently due to coyote problems. (This took place after the deaths, I haven't had deaths since except the one during the storm) I'm making larger runs because they are small(10x10), but it's taking a while since im alone and I ran out of fencing. I'm trying to get help. I'll go measure, I just need to eat, haven't eaten all day.