Are these ladies actually marans? Or just jersey giants?

[Hannahnic14]

I just acquired these 2 ladies and their boyfriend. The lady I bought them from was a new chicken mom and said they were marans. I just want to confirm. She sent me a pic of the eggs that are laid in her coop. I didn't see any other chickens when I went that would lay the darker eggs. They look alot like my 2 jersey giants but I'm a new chicken mom too‍ Thanks! I'll love them no matter what they are!

 

[ColtHandorf]

Black Marans tend to have feathered feet

Marans bred to the French Standard do. Those bred to the UK Standard are clean-legged.

These are all clean-legged Marans I had back when I was fifteen or sixteen and both varieties had been imported into the US.

I did have bloodlines with feathered legs also. But a lack of foot feathers doesn't mean the bird can't be a Marans. Especially in the US where backyard breeders/ignorance runs rampant and people breed anything to anything to try and sell them. How many Marans hybrids are available from the large hatcheries now? Also, there are Black Marans. Just because they aren't Black Copper Marans doesn't mean they can't be Marans.

 

[Shadrach]

Marans bred to the French Standard do. Those bred to the UK Standard are clean-legged.

These are all clean-legged Marans I had back when I was fifteen or sixteen and both varieties had been imported into the US.
View attachment 2902183View attachment 2902184View attachment 2902185View attachment 2902186

I did have bloodlines with feathered legs also. But a lack of foot feathers doesn't mean the bird can't be a Marans. Especially in the US where backyard breeders/ignorance runs rampant and people breed anything to anything to try and sell them. How many Marans hybrids are available from the large hatcheries now? Also, there are Black Marans. Just because they aren't Black Copper Marans doesn't mean they can't be Marans.

That's a bit like saying whisky brewed in Japan is Scotch.

 

[cherrynberry]

Large hen is a JG.

I still think I see BAs. Black Marans tend to have feathered feet and lighter shanks. May just be my limited observations though.

@Overo Mare

 

[Hannahnic14]

This is not a beard, right? Can't really tell.

No beard

 

[Shadrach]

Not Marans I'm afraid. No foot feathers as far as I can see.
No copper in their hackels.
Tail feathers too high off the back.
The black hen on the chair is a Marans.

 

[Painted Calls]

I still think I see BAs. Black Marans tend to have feathered feet and lighter shanks. May just be my limited observations though.

@Overo Mare

I agree.

 

[ColtHandorf]

Elk!?

Neighbors had them on their exotic deer farm. But I wouldn't really count those. lol

Oh my!

I just don't get why you think "Americans" in general are bad with breeding show stock? Care to explain? Is it because of the American SOP?

Cause I know many "Americans" that I look up to in terms of show stock. Not sure why race has anything to do with it.

First of all, American is not a race as defined by the U.S. Census Bureau.

Second of all, It's not that we are bad with breeding show stock. The breeders that adhere to stringent Standards of Perfection outlined by the various clubs and organizations obviously breed the animal of choice to the SOP or there wouldn't be much point in breeding animals for show as they wouldn't place.

My issue comes from the fact that Americans have developed very little in the context of original creations/breeds. What we are very good at, is bastardizing something we've imported and pretended that our version is somehow better than the original stock we imported from its country of origin.

There are a lot of examples I can think of but we'll go with some I can easily find images and anecdotes for off the top of my head.

Zebra Finches:

These are commonly kept by amateur and advanced avicultural hobbyists. In the wild Zebras are small birds that hail from Australia.

After their discovery, they were imported to Europe where caged birds were very popular. Over the years the English, German, and Dutch aviculturists bred a large, calm bird with an easy-going demeanor.

Australia banned the export of their native species many years ago. So the Zebra finches we have here in the states are descended from European imports decades ago. Over the course of their breeding, we (Americans) down-sized the bird, so they more closely resemble the wild birds. However, a lot of our Zebras are extremely pugnacious and hard to keep in mixed aviaries. Also, unless people are seriously interested in breeding them, mutations are mixed and matched so that it is very hard to birds that are pure for their mutation. Society finches (a species developed in captivity from various Lonchura crosses in Asia and doesn't exist in the wild at all) are also very difficult to find in any form of pure mutation.

Additionally, caged bird keeping is relatively under-developed in our country. Hard to breed species like waxbills and others that require live food are nearly impossible to breed as we don't have "pinkies" (live maggots, termites, ant larvae, etc readily available for breeders to offer those species. Our breeding setups are also vastly different. In the US cages are often open with wire bars all the way around.

Birds breed better in more private settings, so the Euro, box-style breeding cages are more effective. Even though we know this, the majority of breeders cannot source those cages in the states and must struggle with breeding birds that require privacy and no nest checks in open settings where they are more likely to toss their offspring or abandon their nests.

Budgies/Parakeets:

Similar to the Zebra Finch, we've undone the work that the European breeders put into the budgies.

You can purchase American parakeets at wholesale for under $7.50. Budgies on the other hand, are generally only available from breeders and can range anywhere from $50-$300 each. More work is required to breed English Budgies though, so why do that when you can mass produce hundreds of birds in flights and sell them with no idea who is related to who or what mutations they carry?

Orpingtons:

The Orpington was developed in England by William Cook. They are English. It drives me absolutely insane to hear APA Orpington breeders tell people there's no such thing as an English Oprington because all Orpingtons are English. Of course they are. But that deosn't mean that in America the Orpingtons that adhere to the APA's SOP are nothing like the birds in Europe that founded the breed. And the American hatchery "Orpingtons" are the worst examples of the breed.

I suppose my issue stems from breeders breeding indiscriminately and diluting the quality of a breed for no other reason than they did and then proposing a new breed standard in order for the animal to meet a Standard that allows it to be "show-quality".

And the term show-quality is mis-leading. I could place at an NFSS show and for three generations I could sell my birds as show-quality. Even if I was breeding for quantity and not quality.

I am not saying that all breeders are bad. What I'm saying is that due to the capitalist, get-rich-quick schemes that plagues the US large numbers of people get into breeding animals for the money and not the animal. Chickens are one of the easiest things to see that in. Go to Craigslist, Facbook, and even on here and you can see people selling birds that they have no idea what they are or are poor representations of their breed.

I joke about UltRA RAIRE lAvenDAR OrphliNgtONs but it's no joke. People actually list those horrible, ratty birds like that and people that don't know any better buy them thinking they are going to be beautiful birds and instead get birds with the shredder gene and a body that looks more like a Leghorn than an Orpington. No joke, a friend of mine bought two 'English Lavender Orpington pullets" that were both cockerels (and obviously so, and were certainly not English. She didn't know any better but the "breeder" still hoodwinked her. When I told her they were both male she asked the breeder to exchange them for pullets and she told her if she didn't like it she could sell them to someone else. At $60 a piece which is what she paid for them when she thought they were pullets.

**Also to the OP I apologize for distracting from the point of your original post and query.

I thought this was all a joke but is it a real argument now?

It's not an argument.

Maybe it is. I have never really been the kind to "joke" around much. Especially since I rarely talk to younger kids. I do not find it funny though. But like Margo and Bean knows, I find very few things funny enough that I actually laugh.

Do you think I'm a younger kid? lol

 

[cherrynberry]

Marans have white skin. Australorps also have white. JG has yellow.

Check the color of the sole of their feet.

 

[cherrynberry]

Marans have white skin. Australorps also have white. JG has yellow.

Check the color of the sole of their feet.

To me, they look like BAs.