Are we becoming a police state?

[Junkmanme]

Quote dacjohns: I was between Albuquerque and Raton Pass on my way to Colorado for my daughter's wedding when I heard it on the radio. I was mad. That's why it stuck. Also the public backlash at the time although it wasn't real loud or long.

I've been over that stretch of road more times than I've got fingers and toes...in all kinds of weather. You never know what the weather is going to be in Las Vegas, NM. Windy, Rainy, Freezing cold blizzard or just plain hot and dry....Ha-Ha !!! I once ran through the same storm 3 times heading south toward Las Vegas, NM. Couldn't seem to get away from it !!! Ha-Ha !!!
(I'm a New Mexico native who lived in Colorado for 20+ years.)

-Junkmanme-

 

[c is 4 cochin]

Police people may be human and make mistakes like everybody else. But there are some situation in which force is just not necessary. Such as this video It didn't take me long to figure out that the elderly person had Alzheimer's, and physically I doubt she was much of a threat given her balance. Once the cop had control of the knife and out of the woman's reach, she definitely was no longer a threat to anyone. I don't even think the woman even realized she even had a knife in her hand.

All it takes is incidents like this one to give cops everywhere a black eye. Some police are excellent and others need extra training and common sense shots along with several shots of humbleness. The thing is, in today's world, we never know whether you'll run into a good or bad apple.

Just adding that, yes. . .I do think that authorities are getting a little too big for their britches.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Except in this case, there is a group of home invasion robbers posing as SWAT team and rob them. Jose's wife's family had been hit by this group. He was merely trying to protect his family and they fired 70 shots into him. Like it takes 70 rounds to subdue him? Then to refuse to let the paramedics treat him when they were on scene? And to top it all off most of the SWAT team in that area are ex military and all paramedic trained. They purposely let him die.

Sounds like something else was going on with that one. Unless they had automatic weapons. I'm guessing he didn't get embalmed.

Semi-auto weapons are entirely capable of firing massive amounts of bullets in a short time. I'd guess that the SWAT team was probably equipped with a couple of AR-15s, and a few MP5 submachine guns, in addition to sidearms. Both of those weapons can fire extremely quickly, even without full auto - I've used an AR-15 before. I've also used a 9mm handgun, and a full-sized MP5 would be even easier to fire quickly, even on semi-auto. Full auto is 800 rounds per minute.

BTW, though, only about 21 of the shots hit, putting this particular SWAT team's marksmanship about on par with Imperial Stormtroopers.

If Guenera had intended to shoot on sight, he would have had the safety off and would have been in a much more strategic position. He was a former Marine, after all. Want to know why the SWAT team fired? The lead guy slipped and they thought he'd been shot, never mind the complete absence of any gunfire before that - and last time I checked, an AR-15 was pretty loud even with something over one's ears. "Oops" is not an acceptable excuse when a man is killed. I've seen the helmet cam video (taken from a SWAT member still inside the vehicle), so I can safely say that the SWAT team never clearly announced who they were. Sequence of events: the team gathers around the door. A few seconds later, they kick in the door. Few more seconds and you can barely see a guy slip, then they all start spraying bullets. I'll see if I can find the video for you.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Sounds like something else was going on with that one. Unless they had automatic weapons. I'm guessing he didn't get embalmed.

Semi-auto weapons are entirely capable of firing massive amounts of bullets in a short time. I'd guess that the SWAT team was probably equipped with a couple of AR-15s, and a few MP5 submachine guns, in addition to sidearms. Both of those weapons can fire extremely quickly, even without full auto - I've used an AR-15 before. I've also used a 9mm handgun, and a full-sized MP5 would be even easier to fire quickly, even on semi-auto. Full auto is 800 rounds per minute.

BTW, though, only about 21 of the shots hit, putting this particular SWAT team's marksmanship about on par with Imperial Stormtroopers.

If Guenera had intended to shoot on sight, he would have had the safety off and would have been in a much more strategic position. He was a former Marine, after all. Want to know why the SWAT team fired? The lead guy slipped and they thought he'd been shot, never mind the complete absence of any gunfire before that - and last time I checked, an AR-15 was pretty loud even with something over one's ears. "Oops" is not an acceptable excuse when a man is killed. I've seen the helmet cam video (taken from a SWAT member still inside the vehicle), so I can safely say that the SWAT team never clearly announced who they were. Sequence of events: the team gathers around the door. A few seconds later, they kick in the door. Few more seconds and you can barely see a guy slip, then they all start spraying bullets. I'll see if I can find the video for you.

If they were on full auto then 21 was pretty good. That's why the Army switched over to 3 round burst. After 3 rounds you are up and to the right. I've never seen anyone hold a full auto on target. At least not in the Army.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
Those police officers did their job fine! The lady had a knife..period. And a knife can KILL you...whether its an 80 yr old holding it..or a 30 yr old...
They did NOT continue to beat her.... they just calmly held her arms until help arrived. And how do you know the lady had Alzheimers?? I didnt see that at all..
And either way,.... they needed to get the knife out of her hands so THEY or no other civilians got hurt.
I'm also SURE that the officer didnt WANT to take down an old lady...jesus.... i'm sure she has a grandma too! i feel bad for that cop... but she had to do her JOB. If that old lady had run and stabbed one of those civilians standing right there, because the cop didnt respond fast enough... WHO would take the blame then??? Yep.... the cop.... they just cant win...
Man.. did you see how those animals acted?? Wow.... you could NEVER pay me enough to be a cop and take that abuse from those animals..
AND the racist punk that was video taping it..yeah.... he should of been knocked on his butt by a cop too, for inciting a riot..
Just my opinion, as usual.

 

[Dunkopf]

I just watched the video of the lady in the Wal mart P/L. Looks like the cop was ok to me. The guy with the camera did a crummy job of filming whatever actually happened. Looks like the lady had a knife and fell down when the cop disarmed her. Very unfortunate but the cop has no clue what the lady is going to do. IMO she should be happy she didn't get tased. If she would have been younger it's doubtful the cop would have put herself at risk trying to take the knife away. The cop is obviously very distressed about the injuries to the woman.

I liked the ladies with the kid in the basket walking 1 foot from a lady with a knife and a cop walking up. I would've gone around myself. The old lady could have been crazy and stuck the knife in the baby.

The fact that the cops didn't take the camera bodes well for them.

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
Oh heaven forbid that the LEOs should want to protect themselves to go home safe to their families at night or to protect the innocent bystanders.

I don't see any indications that the woman has alzheimers - how could you see or hear anything with the jerk that had the camera bouncing around and running his mouth?, but if she did....

I used to work in hospice. When I first moved to Arkansas I took care of the elderly matriarch of a well-to-do family dying from cancer. After she passed, word got around and I was overwhelmed with requests for my services. One request was from a lady that was at the end of her rope trying to care for her mother that had alzheimers. I reluctantly agreed to help. The alzheimers had made this woman EVIL. After six weeks of working with her I quit. I quit because I am frail myself and I got tired of being covered in bruises from her throwing things at me, punching me and hitting me with her cane.

Age and infirmity doesn't necessarily make someone less dangerous.

 

[redhen]

Quote:
Oh heaven forbid that the LEOs should want to protect themselves to go home safe to their families at night or to protect the innocent bystanders.

I don't see any indications that the woman has alzheimers - how could you see or hear anything with the jerk that had the camera bouncing around and running his mouth?, but if she did....

I used to work in hospice. When I first moved to Arkansas I took care of the elderly matriarch of a well-to-do family dying from cancer. After she passed, word got around and I was overwhelmed with requests for my services. One request was from a lady that was at the end of her rope trying to care for her mother that had alzheimers. I reluctantly agreed to help. The alzheimers had made this woman EVIL. After six weeks of working with her I quit. I quit because I am frail myself and I got tired of being covered in bruises from her throwing things at me, punching me and hitting me with her cane.

Age and infirmity doesn't necessarily make someone less dangerous.

Too true! I have worked with Alzheimers/dementia patients for many many years. And although i LOVED working with them the most.... man.. they have knocked me on my butt a time or 2 and i've gotten punched i cant even remember how many times..
Taught me how to take a punch though..

The police were called there for a reason...

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
Oh heaven forbid that the LEOs should want to protect themselves to go home safe to their families at night or to protect the innocent bystanders.

I don't see any indications that the woman has alzheimers - how could you see or hear anything with the jerk that had the camera bouncing around and running his mouth?, but if she did....

I used to work in hospice. When I first moved to Arkansas I took care of the elderly matriarch of a well-to-do family dying from cancer. After she passed, word got around and I was overwhelmed with requests for my services. One request was from a lady that was at the end of her rope trying to care for her mother that had alzheimers. I reluctantly agreed to help. The alzheimers had made this woman EVIL. After six weeks of working with her I quit. I quit because I am frail myself and I got tired of being covered in bruises from her throwing things at me, punching me and hitting me with her cane.

Age and infirmity doesn't necessarily make someone less dangerous.

Too true! I have worked with Alzheimers/dementia patients for many many years. And although i LOVED working with them the most.... man.. they have knocked me on my butt a time or 2 and i've gotten punched i cant even remember how many times..
Taught me how to take a punch though..

The police were called there for a reason...

One memorable moment when I was working at the group home (a group home for developmentally disabled adults) - our oldest resident, in her late 70s, attempted to sneak an entire pie to her room one night. This was a problem because she was diabetic. When I attempted to stop her and take the pie away from her, she shoved me hard enough with her walker to knock me back. It took me and the other house manager and some quick thinking to get that pie away from her without any of us getting hurt.

Never underestimate an elderly person on a mission.

 

[ranchhand]

Mom got quite disoriented and difficult after her cancer got in her brain. She would grab a fork or knife and try to use it on the nearest person. If I'd had a taser? I'd have probably used it, because she really did intend to use that knife on me. It was actually discussed by the family, because even the hired pros were having trouble with handling her.

Same year, my MIL was having the same problem. When she needed an ambulance trip? It took 3 EMTs and 2 LEOs just to get her on the stretcher. And a heavy dose of a sedative to get her out of the ambulance.

I suspect a lot of people read one or two accounts of a story and those come from their usual sources. Better to read up from all angles before passing judgement. So often we forget that many, even most, news sources have their own agendas they wish to push. As do some individuals.

I often ponder why these types of issues even come up on what is basically a wonderful forum for poultry raisers. I can only say that if I had a political, religious or social issue, I'd go to a forum for just that.